What do you think of my floor plan?

Need some more play space for my kids and some extra bedrooms.
Also would love to have a projector for my home theater... we'll see if it is in the budget.
Just wondering what you guys think of the floor plan. I've been mulling this plan over for a couple months and I think it's good but I wanted to run it by some other people to see if I forgot to think of something.

 

Looks ok to me.

That weird little room is called a cold room. I don't know too much about them, but I have been seeing them recently on some TV shows. I believe they are used to store food over the winter. You should probably make that door to the room sealed and insulated.

 

Yeah I wasn't sure if I was going to insulate that room or not.
I am planning on making a bookcase door to that room, but I was going to try to vent that room somehow. I installed a cleanout in that room for my interior french drain thing, and I was thinking I would have to run a dehumidifier in that room and have it expel the water into my french drain.

 

If you have trouble seeing the pictures, right click on one and say "Show Image" or "View Image"

 

You want the door insulated, not the room.

 

K, I can insulate the door. Do you think I will need a dehumidifier in there? If the door isn't air tight, then I could see moisture condensing quite a bit.

 

The bathroom is in a poor position. No one is going to like going through the "living" room to use it, but if it is your only location, then so be it. Bedrooms can't be called "bedrooms" unless you have closets in them. I only see one built in. Corner tubs hold a lot, spelled A LOT, of water. I have a client who is insisting on one for her bathroom that I am remodeling, even after I bring the facts of life to her......83 gallon capacity for the tub.....40 gallon capacity for the water heater.......40 gallons of cold water, and what do you have? And, if it is for kids and guests, let them use a shower or standard soaker tub until they either grow up and get a job, or leave to go back home JK Doing the big tub, consiously, for a master suite is one thing, but you won't control it being downstairs.
Your drawing is emphasizing one egress window, are the other two too small??

 

You have two choices around the cold room. You can either make sure it remains a cold room but also has adequate outside air venting to help reduce moisture through good air flow and then ensure it has an outside door with weather strip and insulate all the walls on the outside of it, or you can completely insulate that room including with vapor barrier and install HVAC service with return air as any other living space would have. It was provided in the days when people actually used them to keep garden grown vegetables cool during the winter months. Also known as a root cellar.

It makes sense to locate your main sewer line under the floor pad and try keep your bathroom near that to reduce the amount of concrete pad breaking and trenching. I am thinking that it may come in near where the water service is. Also for plumbing vents you probably can tie into your laundry vent if one already exists so it might make sense to keep the bathroom failry close to that as well. If not you will need to think about how and where you will run that. You also might continue to look at people flow and consider having a direct access to your laundry upon going down the stairs. Do you really want to carry laundry through your home theatre and living space? To keep costs down I would do the layout planning taking into consideration the plumbing needs first, and follow through with people movement flows. Just my opinion and in the end the layout needs to also please you of course.

 

I disagree about the position of the laundry and bathroom. You have to traverse the living area of a house with laundry no matter what just to get it into the bedrooms. The bathroom is going to be used by the people in the living room. So I don't see an issue with people coming from the bedrooms and crossing the living room.

I do see closets in the bedrooms as well.

 

Here I indicated in the red dotted line the approximate location of the main sewer line.

I did as you said equinox, I tried to keep the bathroom close to the main sewer so there would be less breaking of the concrete.
I don't see any problem with going through the living room to get the laundry... I just kinda saw the downstairs living room as an open place for the kids to play.
The corner tub that I've been eyeing is relatively small: 48x48x17", 60 gal capacity. My wife wants a soaker tub for when she is pregnant.
Seawave IV

I added on the closet doors now, they were just kinda implied before.

The other basment windows are just normal basment windows, 8x32".

Here is a 3D view:

 

It all looks good around your plumbing drain planning. I am surprised about the bedroom window size however for egress and being code compliant. In some places both bedrooms are required to provide egress in case of fire. I was expecting that both had to be 5.7sq feet and with a minimum size of 20x24. I know some people get around this by not including a closet and calling the space an exercise area for instance. Do you have a current plumbing vent you can tie into from an existing laundry sink to meet code? Do you also have enough electrical service panel space to add the additional electrical circuits you will need, or will that also need to be upgraded? What are your plans around wall insulation, home theatre sound proofing, and basement friendly floor methods and materials? Did you decide on what you would do with your cold room to either make sure it is well vented and isolated as an outdoor space, or to consider the other option. As a cold room it won't make a very usable storage space for many things as it will always have some level of dampness and remain fairly cold and damp in winter even with venting. Some experts suggest it is better to eliminate it completely and turn it into inside living or storage space by insulating the ceiling and walls and providing HVAC air flow. If not an exterior door with threshold is required.

 

Darn, drooplug, I missed that one closet. Eyes are getting old.

 

Cold room:



I have a vapor barrier in that room already that is tied into my interior french drain system. So then any water that comes in from the outside is directed down into the trench and over to the sump. I haven't decided if I want to put the insulation behind this, or in front of it, or add a second vapor barrier to block the inside moist air.

If i do insulate the cold room, I'm not sure what to do with the ceiling because the plywood they poured the stoop with sank down as the concrete dried, so now I have a big dip in the concrete ceiling to that room.


I'm pretty much planning on having to run a dehumidifier in this room so I made a cleanout for the french drain in this room. That way if I run a dehumidifier, I can just have it drain into the french drain.



The basment professional guys just wanted me to wall it off permanently... but I wanted to keep the space as storage.

Egress:
I called the city and they that I would only need one egress for both bedrooms because of something about the diagonal distance from the stairs to the bedroom doors or something like that. I was more than happy to only put in 1

Soundproofing:
I'm not too worried about this, I just love the big screen, not so much big sound But I do plan to have a 5.1 surround system in there. I figured that I could put fiberglass insulation in the walls and in the joists. I know there are some better methods but probably not cheaper right?

Electrical Panel:
The city said that I will only need 3 more circuits and that is what I have in the panel. What are the rules though on doubling up wires on one circuit?

 

If you really do not want to close it off which actually makes alot of sense to consider doing, I would consider just installing an exterior door with appropriate jam and threshold especially with what you have already done with the vapor barrier and french drain. You should never apply two vapor barriers or all you will do is trap moisture and encourage mould growth. There are specific membrane products that can be applied to the inside wall that also allow both moisture and air flow movement behind them. This would apply also to your interior space if all of it is also tied into your new weeping system. Another option is to apply a moisture sealer product on the block and remove the poly altogether. I see alot of potential for trapped moisture especially once you frame it all in. You have not mentioned about venting the cold space and you should vent it to outside air, and that may give enough air flow to remove the need for a dehumidifier especially if you seal it off with a proper door. Treat it then as an outside, unheated space and then insulate the interior wall side only. That is what it is at this point. You can then store some things in that area. Just keep organic based products like paper and cardboard as well as steel products out of the space or you will turn it into a mould and rust producing farm. I am not sure what you mean by doubling up wires, but besides meeting NEC code on such things as GFCI in bathrooms and AFCI requirements you should have no more than 12 loads on any protected circuit, and of course can not conceal junction boxes without access, or have more wires per box than allowed if you do tie into them and they are accessible. I would avoid that completely as it may be difficult to find out all the loads that are currently on the exisiting circuits. You will also need to provide the correct number of recepticals based on linear wall feet in each room space. I am not an electrician though there are many also on this forum who are true experts in regards to NEC requirements, but I think I have covered some of the basics around your electrical question. In regards to sound proofing, there are mineral wool based products that do provide some level of sound proofing as well as insulation value if you decide to go that way. This type of product is also mould resistant and based on your block wall and current dampness potential this might make sense to use all throughout anyway. Also you might consider using 'blue wood' for any wall studding you install as it also resists mould growth.

 

What would you recommend that I do with the walls?
I plan to paint drylok or similar product on the unfinished walls in the laundry and under the stairs. How would you do the walls? I have the vapor barrier behind the concrete on top of the french drain as show here:

I could always cut if off though at the slab. I was not sure if i was going to put insulation behind the vapor barrier or not. Tell me what to do please

As far as the floor, I could either leave it bare and then put a pad and carpet on it. However, I'm somewhat worried about moisture/condensation under the pad and then it smells and i have to replace it.
My other thought was to spend about $400 on Platon and plywood and do a subfloor for all of the finished spaces. Platon + plywood is pretty much equal to Dricore, but at about 15% of the price if I remember right.
Platon

 

One solution for your walls as I mentioned is to stud using 2x blue wood which is mould resistant, and if you decide to use Batt insulation to consider a mineral wool product again because it is mould resistant. It makes sense to apply a drylock type product if you are not seeing any obvious water penetration through the block walls and only want to help avoid moisture seepage. If you are not getting water penetration now I am not sure why you require that plastic poly that will not allow any breathing and moisture escape and only cause potential mould and trapped moisture issues in the future. There are specific membranes that keep any water flow behind them as it travels down to the drainage system while still allowing air flow. If you insulate with batts the only vapor barrier should be on the inside directly behind the drywall and it should completely seal off the inside air flow from reaching the foundation walls by passing through the insulation material. I would also leave a small gap as well between your studs and the block wall and keep insulation from directly sitting against the wall. Rigid foam is another option that would not require a separate vapor barrier, and could be installed directly over the block wall and then a separate interior wall could be framed and closed over with dry wall. If you go with rigid foam you must also install drywall for fire safety reasons. I think you are right about allowing the floor pad to breath based on moisture concerns, and products such as you mentioned will work along with other dimple floor products. If you decided to use laminate floor to finish for example , some of the dimple membrane products DeltaFL do not require a wooden subfloor above the dimple membrane.

 

I will have to look into this blue wood. I know that anything touching concrete is required to be "treated".
So here is what I'm thinking....
Layer 0) Foundation wall
Layer 1) Rigid board insulation (with blue wood)
Layer 2) The vapor barrier already installed
Layer 3) Mold-resistant drywall

Or

Layer 0) Foundation wall
Layer 1) Barrier to water flow but not air flow
Layer 2) Rigid board insulation (with blue wood)
Layer 3) The vapor barrier already installed
Layer 4) Mold-resistant drywall

What type of barrier resists water flow but not air?

I dislike the idea of painting drylock on stuff that I'm going to cover up because it will only last so long.
Tonight I went around and sprayed a mold killer on all of the walls to try and fight the existing mold.

 

There are dimpled membranes that allow air flow between the wall and the membrane. While these are usually used on the exterior side of foundation walls they are also recommended for interior walls with French drains. You can google under products such as superseal construction products to get an idea. The current vapor barrier you have is only an invitation to trap moisture and water. You need to provide air flow as I mentioned. While it is normally practiced to have a vapor barrier on the warm side as I mentioned, even in basements, the EPA is now recommending that below grade walls do not have a vapor barrier installed but allow the air to flow and breath behind studded walls, and through any thermal break insulation you install. Google EPA moisture control. Each basement is different with different moisture levels. As you in fact have water penetration that required the French drain approach then I would suggested the dimpled membrane approach, blue wood studding and mineral wool insulation with a small gap between the membrane and insulation to allow for adequate air movement on both sides of the membrane. Like traditional PT lumber, blue wood is moisture resistant, but it also is mould resistant which is an important benefit below grade. Every basement also has it's own requirements. If you didn't need a French Drain and no water ever penetrated your foundation, and your basement was fairly dry it might make sense to only install rigid foam. This acts as both an thermal barrier and a moisture barrier. In your case, you do need to leave a path for water to flow down into the gravel drain. Hope this helps. No matter what, never install two vapor barriers, either above or below grade, and please consider in your case not installing even one of them, but replacing what you have with the kind of membrane I suggested. Hope this helps. There are many opinions around in this regard, but as I said each basement needs to be considered on it's own also.

 

Hey Thurst,

What software are you using for your design? I need to draw up plans for my basement remodel for the inspector and for my planning needs. All help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Bryan

 

I'm using an older version of Better Homes and Gardens: Home Designer
Home Designer: DIY Home Design Software by Chief Architect
The software is made by Chief Architect.

Looks like the new software can a lot more custom things than mine, but mine is good enough for 98% of what most people need.
You could probably find an old version on ebay or something.