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steel track/stud in a basement (and a laser level question)

steel track/stud in a basement (and a laser level question)


  #1  
Old 03-21-15, 12:55 PM
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steel track/stud in a basement (and a laser level question)

Hello. I'm looking to put a partition wall into an unfinished basement. It used to be semi-finished until Hurricane Sandy swamped the basement to the ceiling, now it's bare from foundation to foundation, floor to ceiling.

Basically, I'm looking to set aside a tool/storage room by blocking off a recessed area in the basement measuring 14' across. As a result, this will be drywalled on one side with no insulation or pretty much anything else in or on the wall; the only feature will be a door.

I'm planning to use galvanized steel track and studs. Moisture is an inevitable feature of this basement--more seepage through the floor (and the occasional outright flood) than humidity, so I think this would work better than even treated wood (i.e., warping and mold).

A few questions along that line:
-- considering that this wall isn't load bearing, or will do much more than separate off an area, can I get away with using Liquid Nails or similar construction adhesive to attach it to the concrete? If possible, I'd like to avoid using nails/screws because (1) I have a cordless drill but not a drill/DRIVER, (2) I'd rather not buy a nailgun for such a small/limited project (and I'm too disorganized to rent something and manage to use it that same day), and (3) considering that I get seepage from below--high water table and all--I'd rather avoid making holes, even shallow ones (I already get seepage through seams in the slab).

-- I've read contradictory instructions on cutting the studs a bit short. One said to be sure the fit was tight, another said to leave 6-10mm gap at the top to allow for building movement and temperature changes. Which is correct?

As to laser levels... when laying out steel track/studs, which is handier: a cross line or a 3 point level--esp if the latter give you plumb?

I know I'm blanking on a question or two I meant to ask, so I'll add as they come to me.
 

Last edited by vanderdecker; 03-21-15 at 03:35 PM.
  #2  
Old 03-21-15, 01:49 PM
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Why not make it an all steel wall without any wood. You would need a tin snips and a drill with phillipshead driver attachment and self tapping fine thread drywall screw. Small pan head self tappers are used to build the frame itself.
 
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Old 03-21-15, 02:29 PM
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I think he intends to use all steel Z. No mention of wood except why NOT to use it.
 
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Old 03-21-15, 02:52 PM
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(2) I'd rather not buy a nailgun for such a small/limited project (and I'm too disorganized to rent something and manage to use it that same day),
Did an awful lot of talking about not wanting to rent a nail gun for someone who is going all steel.

You can rent drywall screw attachments that go on your drill. Look like a phillips head screwdriver with a mushroom cap on the bit. It allows you to drive the screw and the screw will spin off the head when it hits the drywall so you don't over sink the screw. Cost less than $5.
 
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Old 03-21-15, 03:31 PM
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You can rent drywall screw attachments that go on your drill. Look like a phillips head screwdriver with a mushroom cap on the bit. It allows you to drive the screw and the screw will spin off the head when it hits the drywall so you don't over sink the screw. Cost less than $5.
Yes, I have one, but I wasn't asking about the drywall aspect, just the steel framing (and how to anchor the track to the concrete floor).
 

Last edited by vanderdecker; 03-21-15 at 04:08 PM.
  #6  
Old 03-21-15, 05:46 PM
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Actually, Z, I use my Bostitch Strap Shot with case hardened nails to fix metal plates to concrete. You only need an inch or so and they are fast and hold well. Not the investment for a DIYer. For DIY, a lesser investment in a powder actuated gun with short pins and probably green loads would work.
 
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Old 03-22-15, 04:36 PM
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Any problem using a powder-actuated tool in concrete that was probably poured just before the Great Depression?
 
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Old 03-22-15, 04:44 PM
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To answer your first question, there is no reason you cant use liquid nails to attach your bottom plate. No need for screws or ramset.
 
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Old 03-22-15, 05:01 PM
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Liquid nails has never been a stand alone adhesive. It is to give rigidity/stability to a mechanically fastened connection. It was never meant to be a universal super glue that all you have to do is apply and walk away. Try sticking masking tape to concrete, it can be dusty and if not perfectly clean, it will not hold. Moisture is also an issue with concrete which can affect the bond. Ram set power shots are relatively cheap, anything is better than nothing if the wall depends on it. Metal studs can not be driven up as tight as wood stud where you can leverage the weight of the building to your advantage.
 
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Old 03-22-15, 05:09 PM
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I have used liquid nails for 20 years to attach wall plates to concrete floors with radiant heating and never had an issue. Unless you plan on drop kicking the wall everytime you go into the room, it is not going to move.
 
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Old 03-22-15, 05:36 PM
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Will let the instructions for liquid nails speak for itself. Regardless of what someone has been doing for years.

Liquid Nails Heavy Duty Instructions from their website. Highlights for emphasis...

DIRECTIONS
Surfaces must be clean, dry and structurally sound. Paneling must be conditioned per manufacturers instructions. Research all installation instructions and read label for safety, health, and environmental information. Place in caulk gun, cut nozzle, and puncture inner seal with nail or wire.

Cabinets and Countertops: Apply ¼” bead to contact areas. Press into
place. Mechanical fasteners must also be used for wall cabinets.

Furring Strips or Studs:
Apply ¼” zigzag bead to each strip or stud. Press into place. Use
nails at top and bottom.


Drywall: Apply ¼” zigzag bead to each stud. Press drywall into
place. Position panels so that edges meet at stud center. Nail as required.

Subfloors:
Apply ¼” bead to joists. Press subflooring into place and nail or screw every six inches around panel perimeter and every 12” into joists in field of the panel
 
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Old 03-22-15, 05:42 PM
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Or you can just use the right product for the job.

LePage / LePage® Construction Adhesives / PL® 9000 Heavy Duty Construction Adhesive

Do you use nails to hold your tub surround in place as well instead of relying on the adhesive?
 
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Old 03-22-15, 06:21 PM
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Countertops: Apply ¼” bead to contact areas. Press into place
Please do not use liquid nails or any other construction adhesive to secure counter tops or vanity tops. Use 100% silicone, and only small dabs of that around perimeter.

For the wall OP asked about, I would say powder shots. A Remington can be purchased relatively cheap.
 
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Old 03-23-15, 03:31 AM
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I have had good success using PL8x for floor plates where basement walls are added over existing tile installations. Have never had a wall move. I only use the adhesive if I have no real way of fastening it mechanically. In some instances I KNOW the walls will be removed once the owner sells the house, so it makes it much easier to scrape adhesive than to repair holes in tile.
 
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Old 03-23-15, 05:33 AM
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Just had a thought.
As I'd mentioned, this basement was torn apart after Hurricane Sandy, which flooded it pretty much to the ceiling. I'd called in a mold remediation company that took out pretty much every bit of wood that wasn't weight bearing or structural (e.g. the stairs).

I just took a look down there, and in no place where there had been walls were there holes in the floor where they'd been attached. It's possible they used some sort of adhesive (the demolition crew scraped up the floor, too)--I can only presume that they wouldn't simply have rested the floor plates on the concrete. Still, whatever stuff they'd have used would have predated the 1960s at the least.
 
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Old 03-23-15, 05:44 AM
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I have no problem building a wood stud wall without fasteners on the bottom plate. You can build the wall under tension and use the weight of the house above to bear down on the whole wall and lock it in place. Contrast, a steel studded wall is not load bearing in your case and you can not pre-tension the wall to hold it in place. Therefore, some form of fastener needs to hold it in place. Keith's PL9000 specifically mentions the holding of metal studs (different than liquid nails), but again, depends on hot tight the wall is built in place. Power shots of course are also an excellent choice.
 
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Old 03-23-15, 07:09 AM
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PL9000 will hold it without a doubt. If using metal studs, glue the bottom plate down the day before you want to do the walls and put some weight on it to hold it in place until the glue sets. Once it is set, it will NOT move. The only way to get it up would be with a sledge hammer and wreaking bar. Take it from someone who has actually done it. It will hold. Even stuff not designed for that application, such as liquid nails sub floor adhesive will hold just as well, but I still prefer PL9000.
 
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Old 03-23-15, 07:34 AM
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The more I read about it, the more I'm wondering if my basic premise is wrong: I just called ClarkDietrich and their standard product, ProStud (which basically is what you find in Home Depot and Lowes), is G40 and not recommended for use where it'll regularly be exposed to moisture. So unless I can find G90 products in the area, I will probably have to move to wood--and ClarkDietrich, at least, doesn't make drywall framing in G90. Maybe a pressure treated baseplate? But that brings back the original concern: mold. Even pressure treated wood gets coated with mold under damp conditions.
 

Last edited by vanderdecker; 03-23-15 at 09:15 AM.
 

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