Reinforcing cold storage door opening


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Old 03-28-15, 06:41 PM
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Reinforcing cold storage door opening

We're in the process of building a new house (3 weeks away!).

We have a 9ft basement with a cold storage room above the porch. When they poured the foundation, the cold storage door was over 12 inches to the left. They consulted their structural engineer and made a few changes to allow them to cut the opening 12 inches wider (4 foot total). This included installing an LVL instead of rimboard and hanging the floor off the LVL. On the other side of the opening they added rebar to the porch cap that spanned the opening. They put plywood over the porch before hand with 2x4's around the perimeter.

The outcome looks like this:
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Our sewer main is above the basement floor grade (and comes in via the cold storage room) so that's why the circular cutout is there. In addition to the horizontal overcut there's a similar vertical one on the backside.

Anyways. On to my question. Even though I have a red stamped structural engineered document saying the LVL and rebar is sufficient, I plan to live in the home for at least 30 years and want to reinforce it. My plan would be to frame the opening in and put what was originally supposed to be there (3068 Buck).

As I've thought about it, I've come up with a few different options.

1. Frame that back wall and include some 2x10's for a header to support the floor joists on the front side and do something similar on the back.

2. Put in a steel door frame

3. Install a steel lintel of some sort to support the porch cap.

Anyways - this is my first post and I'm just looking for recommendations/thoughts. Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 03-29-15, 06:22 AM
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Welcome to the forums! Is the cold storage room above this basement? Or is THIS the cold storage room? Do your concerns target the span of this opening only? With the added header, you should have no problem with any structure above this. Where will your door opening be in relation to this opening? Directly above it? Offset?
 
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Old 03-29-15, 08:11 AM
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I can't follow what you want to do.
Do you want to add further support to the span above door opening?
See my picture with blue area.
It sounds like you want to add headers at both front and back of this wall. Of course the headers would have support down to floor.

If this is true, I can't see it being necessary.

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Old 03-29-15, 09:47 AM
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Thanks for the replies.

To answer a few questions. The door opening goes into the cold storage area. The 2x4's are the temporary shoring for the porch cap. The front door is directly above the opening. The home is a two story, but the second floor is setback 2 feet, so it's just the first floor and porch it's supporting.

Handyone's picture illustrates what I was thinking. Here are my concerns (whether they be founded or not..) and why I was thinking of adding additional support.

1. Size of the span. Given the overcut's needed to cut the extra opening and the bore, It's effectively spanning from the end of the wall to left side; in the neighborhood of 5 feet. The rebar lintel was effectively sitting on top of the 2x4, so it was cut in half as part of the process. I imagine there's rebar near the top of wall, but it's obviously missing support underneath.

2. Notches in LVL. Given there is rebar on the otherside for the porch cap, the sill plate is in the middle of the wall and therefore the LVL had to be notched to get around the bolts. I understand they had to do it, but doesn't that compromise it's ability to actually support the entire span? If the concrete above the door opening wasn't there, that beam wouldn't be able to support the floor above it - and wasn't that the whole purpose of it?

Again, I'm probably worrying about nothing, but it doesn't seem like a trivial thing to cut out a chunk of your foundation either.

Thanks!
 
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Old 03-29-15, 11:34 AM
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The LVL appears to be sitting on the monolith, is that correct? If so, the notches won't affect anything. I am seeing little teepee cuts on the bottom. I am assuming those are the notches. You have the LVL over the opening spanning as far as necessary for additional support. The monolith is not going anywhere over the door opening as it was poured in one piece. The LVL above the opening could support it all without the concrete below it. You have the concrete below it, so it is a bonus. Too many "ifs".

You will be framing in the opening for a door, so that framing will add even more strength to the span. I just believe from what we have seen all will be well. Let the others chime in as well on this.
 
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Old 03-29-15, 12:02 PM
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I think Chandler said it all. I understand your concerns.
Act as though the opening is not even there, it has no bearing (pardon the pun)
I can't give you the numbers just right now, maybe Chandler can, but LVL Beams have tremendous load bearing capacity and the ends are resting on foundation walls. It doesn't get any better.

If the engineer had any concerns, this would look different.
 
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Old 03-29-15, 12:09 PM
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I only have one question......what is that 2x4 doing sticking out of the doorway towards the camera????

LVL has tremendous load bearing strength. Doubling a 9" LVL will span over 20' without support. You seem to have an 11" and only spanning 5'....you're good. In addition, you have all the weight of the joists bearing on the LVL and not on the concrete, so doubly good.
 
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Old 03-29-15, 01:03 PM
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Yes, the notches I was talking about are the teepees around the bolts. I guess I thought that would affect it's load bearing capability, but I guess it's not worth being concerned over.

To answer your question, the 2x4 is the top of the old door way, they moved it to cut the concrete and it's since been removed.

Thanks for the replies. It has helped provide some good piece of mind.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 11:56 PM
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Hey, just a follow up question. Would you fill those overcuts in with anything? Again, there's a vertical one (about the same length) on the backside of the wall in addition to the one seen in the picture? What about using some sort of metal plate to wedge in the cut to try and regain some of the strength?
 
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Old 04-02-15, 02:43 AM
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Your strength is in the header, coupled with the monolith. Those cuts can be filled with concrete patch, but only for aesthetics. Will you be finishing the basement, or leaving the concrete as it is?
 
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Old 04-02-15, 09:40 AM
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We'd like to eventually finish the basement, but not sure when that will be. I suppose we could have waited to cut out the concrete until we finished it, but at the same time we wanted the builder to be liable if they messed up.

I figured it might help if I added a few more pictures.

Here's what's directly above that wall.
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Here's a top down look of that section of the basement:
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Take that 8 inch wall and divide it in 2. The front 4 inches (which you see in my original picture) support the floor. The back 4 inches (which you can't see) have a 6 inch porch cap slab with a door step in concrete to boot.

Here's a picture of what the builder sent me (at first they wanted to just use a continuous rimboard, but the engineer made them put in the LVL instead).
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The front after the porch cap was poured:
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Again, the fix was to add 2x horizontal #4 rebar that spanned the opening for the porch cap and then the LVL for the other side.

I feel a little better about the LVL holding up the floor/wall. Now I was looking at the porch cap side. That seems like a lot of weight sitting on something that's cut. I'm now wondering if I shouldn't get 2 jack posts and a small steel beam to put on the porch cap side to hold up the concrete (since I know you can't use wood to support concrete).

Again, I'm probably worrying about nothing, but to be honest, this keeps me up at night. We close on the house in 2 weeks, so it's been weighing (heh) on my mind a lot lately.

Thanks for listening/reading.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 03:39 PM
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If you need something to do, look at all your exposed windows and doors to make sure they are properly flashed and layered. That will keep you up a couple of nights
 
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Old 04-03-15, 10:37 AM
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Again, I think your worries are ungrounded. The LVL is designed to carry loads with only a small bearing surface at each end. You have most of your wall intact. I'm not an engineer, but I see it as virtually impossible for this beam to deflect.

The engineer probably added the rebar to achieve the same effect as LVL, zero deflection over the span.
 
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Old 04-06-15, 09:03 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I think I've finally come to terms with it and am moving on.

Next question. What would be your approach to framing the door in?

On the right I have an 8 inch sheer face. Up top i have a mixed bag. Where the saw was is sheer (albeit doesn't exactly look straight...), but then in the middle and left I have a lip where the 2x4 was on top. On the left, that 2x4 is still there, with a lip towards the back.

I think I want to use a standard 2'8" final door. However I'm not sure on the depth of the door given I will eventually frame that back wall. Initially I thought I'd have a buddy with a concrete angle grinder come over and smooth everything out and use 2x8's (and thus cover most of it up so I don't have to look at it...) all around.

Another thought would be to hire it out. What would be ballpark ranges you'd expect for something like this if I just said I wanted it smoothed and framed ready for a door?

Thoughts?
 
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Old 04-07-15, 04:21 AM
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If the opening is larger than 3', then you can just frame it in and not worry about grinding off any concrete. Place 2x8 pt pieces on the floor from the two walls so as to leave an opening that is 34" wide. You will need a 2x8 to span across the entire top of the opening and 2x8 studs to support that plate. One stud placed as close to the existing monolith as possible and no distance more than 16" from the monolith to the opening. The opening will have a king stud placed 1 1/2" away from the edge of the bottom plates. You can build a header if space permits (36" long) and support it with two 2x8 jack studs on the inside edge of the kings in the 1 1/2" space you left.

Plan on mounting a prehung Left hand door in the opening on the edge closest to the camera. That way it will open outward and against the wall, out of the way. Opening it inward may take up too much space in the cold room.

I could have built it in the time it took to tell this, and I may have not conveyed the entire picture, but you can do this yourself.
 
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Old 04-07-15, 10:06 PM
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Here's what I'm thinking. I need to check height but I believe I can do 2x 2x8's as a header. If not, I would just do 1.

Also, I would put up plywood on the backside (in the cold storage room) so that I could put up insulation on the front side.

Option #1:
Essentially I frame the new doorway in with 2x8's and use the existing 2x4. Using an angle grinder I would just have to level out the top as far as the 2x8 would go. More lumber, less grinding. Lag bolts would be used on the right and top to attach the 2x8's to the concrete.
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Option #2:
I remove everything, grind down all 3 sides and use 2x8's throughout. More grinding, less lumber. Lag bolts would be used on both sides and top.With this option am I correct in assuming I wouldn't have to put down a bottom plate (assuming the floor is level)?
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I would then just drop in a pre-hung door as recommended. Thoughts?
 
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Old 04-08-15, 03:41 AM
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Option 1a. Make a few changes and hang the door. You can use tapcons or powder driven pins to hold the wood to the monolith, rather than lags. You would have to countersink the lags to make the head flush.

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