help on how to install a zone


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Old 09-15-04, 06:47 PM
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help on how to install a zone

Hello I would like to add a zone in my basement separate to the main floor in a bungalow.

I have a Slantfin boiler and a circulator, and thermostat for the whole house. there are no zones currently.

How would I go about doing this Would this also save me heating costs?

Thanks in advance
 
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Old 09-16-04, 07:06 PM
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First of all, there is no way that adding heat to a room will save you on heating cost.

You would need to install a zone valve to control water flow to the existing heated area and add another zone valve for the new zone. It will require draining the boiler and hooking the new pipes into the existing ones. Then you will need to install a thermostat on a wall in the new zone and run the wires back to the new zone valve.

Does this sound like something you want to explore further? Let us know what other questions you have.

Ken
 
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Old 09-17-04, 07:34 PM
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Hi Ken,

I have a bungalow heating both the basement and main floor. I thought that by separating the two, some how more hot water would be diverted to heat the used space thus saving fuel cost. I now stand corrected.

I also don't understand why I need two zone valves. I was under the impression that just puting a zone valve for the basement would suffice, so I could keep the thermostat on the main floor to run the furnace and separate zone in the basement on its own thermostat and this one does not control the furnace.

Am I way off?

P.S. I feel very comfortable working with pipes and electrical, there are no problems there.
 
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Old 09-20-04, 10:40 AM
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adding a zone

From what you are saying I would say you could get away with using just the one zone valve if that's what you like. On the other hand you could just use a mixing valve and set the temperature and leave it at that.
 
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Old 09-20-04, 02:35 PM
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If the whole house is on a continuous loop, you would not be able to stop the flow in one area and still have any circulation at all in any of the other areas. If the whole house is not on one loop, then I would need to know how the flow is distributed before I could tell you how best to split it up. I would not recommend a zone valve that would be slaved to the main zone. You would not be able to supply heat to the basement unless the heat was running in the main zone and if it got cold down there it could take a very long time to catch up. I would recommend sticking to the tried and true methods of zoning but thats just my 2 cents.

Ken
 
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Old 09-21-04, 06:59 PM
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I have a schematic I have made and will post.

Thanks!
 
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Old 09-21-04, 07:25 PM
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Old 09-30-04, 05:43 AM
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Hello ok I have figured out how to post a pic.

This is the plan of the main floor and the basement feed is coming from the furnace area and will post that when I scan it in.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bluewing/Ma...ating_Plan.jpg

Thanks again.
 
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Old 09-30-04, 03:29 PM
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I don't see where the basement zone comes off but maybe that's what you are going to add. If you put a tee real close to the boiler and add a zone valve to the existing zone and then on efor the basement, you should have it made. There is no other way to have independent control. It isn't much of a problem, just one more zone valve than you were planning.

Ken
 
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Old 09-30-04, 07:54 PM
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I am sorry ken, Am missing alot of stuff here.

The pipes for the basement were already run when the new furnace was installed. As I am renovating the basement I removed all the rads all were on the inside walls guess they were easier to install for them. I am going to extend each line off the main basement lines and place them on the outside walls. Please see pictures.

As for the Main floor plan it is the original from when the house was built and I am going to keep it the same other then I want to raise them closer to the joists to make more head room.

As for the zone valves Ken you keep saying I need 2. I can't grasp this. I keep thinking I only need one valve and that is for the basement only. I don't understand why you need another valve for the main floor. If I had one valve for the basement only would this valve not slave off the main thermostat that runs the furnace, even though you have a second thermostat for the basement?

Another 2 questions have popped up from all the reading I am doing

1. Can I use copper pipe and is it wise to do so since copper dissipates heat more?

2. From what I understood from this post baseboard heaters are not good to use or mix when you have cast iron rads? What do I do I gave the cast iron rads to my cousin...should I ask for them back?

Anyway here are all of the pictures

Thank you for your help

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bluewing/Boiler_Picture.JPG <-----Boiler Picture

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bluewing/ba...ating_plan.JPG <----Basement Schematic

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bluewing/Ma...ating_Plan.jpg <-- Main floor schematic
 
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Old 10-01-04, 05:39 AM
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If you add just one zone valve for the basement, it will only have heat available in that zone during a call for heat in ther main zone. Since it is baseboard and looped it may not get enough circulation when it is running in parallel with the other zone. If they both had a zone valve, the basement could get its circulation after the main floor shut down.

It seems like you already know how you want to do it and all I can say is try it that way and if you are not happy, you have already been told how to do it right and will know what materials you need to correct the situation.

As for mixing copper fin and cast iron, they should not be mixed on the same zone which yours will still technically be since using one zone valve. I don't think it will matter that much since I doubt you will be comfortable anyway. I would use copper for all of the commections and put in finned copper baseboard.

Ken
 
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Old 10-01-04, 08:54 AM
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Ok I now understand why two zone valves. Thanks!!!

If I have this straight now.

Zone 1 will be the main floor, it will remain original steel pipe and cast iron rads.

Zone 2 will be the basement I will remove the steel pipes that the installers put in when they put heating in the basement for me and change them to copper piping 1" from the furnace. I will then run 3/4" copper to each branch and use copper fin baseboards.

Zone 1 will have a 2 1/2" zone valve since piping is that size

Zone 2 will have a 1" zone valve.

I am a little worried about how valves are electrically connected but think there will be instructions with it.

Another question should a valve ever fail, can they be manually opened and remain in the open position?

As for all the calculations that you saw I got them from the Slantfin site (heatloss calculation software)



Thanks again Ken for all your help for making things more clear.

I just hope I don't make a mess of things
 
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Old 10-01-04, 11:19 AM
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You can use a 1" zone valve fore the main zone too. You do not need nearlythe flow you would get from anything larger. A 3/4 " valve would be adequate for the new zone. The valve should match the demand more than pipe size.

Ken
 
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Old 10-20-04, 09:20 AM
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Hello thanks for all the info!!!

Well I had to stop and finish raising all the main floor pipe(for headroom) and connect everything back up getting cold here in Ontario. capped the basement feed for now.

Thanks for the advise I think that I am going to stick with the casr iron rads that I bought for the basement instead of the baseboard. Thay appear to better.

Still haven't installed the 2 zone valves basement will be easy as feed is 1" but main florr original pipes are 2" can I get a zone valve that I can simply screw on to that pipe?

Anyway have heat for the main floor and cut it a little thin BRRRR!

Mark
 
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Old 10-20-04, 11:13 AM
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You could get a 2" zone valve but it would probably cost $250. You only need a 1" valve so put a 2X1 reducing coupling on the 2" and use a 1" zone valve.

Ken
 
 

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