Can't get my forced hot water system to bleed


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Old 11-14-04, 11:19 AM
ditchdriver
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Can't get my forced hot water system to bleed

After having one side of my heating system turned off with a valve, it will no longer heat. Half of my heating system is stone cold even though all the valves are open. I've tried to bleed the system with the bleeder valve but nothing comes out, actually just a little air at first then nothing. I can also hear air bubbles gurgling in this half that does work. I suspect the system is not replenishing itself. Please help as it's getting cold in here.
 
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Old 11-14-04, 12:04 PM
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Did you try and bleed it with the pump off? Psi on the boiler right??15 to 18psi??

Ed
 
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Old 11-14-04, 12:48 PM
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Can't get my forced hot water system to bleed

Yes, Ive tried it both ways. As for how much pressure in the boiler, there seems to be zero.
 
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Old 11-14-04, 12:56 PM
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Is the shut off to the auto fill valve on????? for one floor home you have to have about 15 lb psi on the boiler. Check and see why the water dont go in it.

ED
 
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Old 11-14-04, 01:02 PM
ditchdriver
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Can't get my forced hot water system to bleed

Pardon my ignorance, how do I check this. The shut off valve is indeed in the on posistion. I've also loosened the nipple on the shut off valve and have plenty of pressure there.
 
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Old 11-14-04, 03:36 PM
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If the shutoff valve, which should be upstream of the auto-fill valve, is open, then you need to adjust the auto-fill valve. Turn the stem/thumbwheel clockwise (looking from the top of the stem) until you hear water flowing into the boiler. Watch the pressure guage, and adjust the auto-fill so the boiler has 15-18 psi.

Go bleed radiators, and you should have heat to them.
 
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Old 11-14-04, 04:02 PM
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For the best results, do the bleeding with the circulator turned off.

Ken
 
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Old 11-17-04, 01:36 PM
ditchdriver
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Can't get my forced hot water system to bleed

Still puzzled by this thing. Still no pressure when I open the bleeders. The gauge on the boiler says 17 psi. Is it possible the auto fill valve is the culprit? I have removed the expansion tank and the valve above it which I assume is the auto fill valve. Is there a way to test this valve?
 
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Old 11-17-04, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ditchdriver
Still puzzled by this thing. Still no pressure when I open the bleeders. The gauge on the boiler says 17 psi. Is it possible the auto fill valve is the culprit? I have removed the expansion tank and the valve above it which I assume is the auto fill valve. Is there a way to test this valve?
Did you really physically remove the expansion tank from the system? If so, why, you have to have it.

I have no way of telling you if the valve above the expansion tank is the auto-fill valve, without seeing a picture or the actual piping. Whether it is above or below the expansion tank has no relevance. It should be in the main water supply line going into the boiler. It will be a bell shaped valve, with a stem or thumb screw sticking out of the top of it.

Did you do what I recommended in my previous post?
"If the shutoff valve, which should be upstream of the auto-fill valve, is open, then you need to adjust the auto-fill valve. Turn the stem/thumbwheel clockwise (looking from the top of the stem) until you hear water flowing into the boiler. Watch the pressure guage, and adjust the auto-fill so the boiler has 15-18 psi.

Go bleed radiators, and you should have heat to them."

Did you hear water flowing thru the auto-fill valve?

How high above the boiler are the radiators that have no heat? I am looking for a number here, e.g. 18 feet or whatever.
 
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Old 11-18-04, 12:58 AM
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Can't get my forced hot water system to bleed

I removed the expansion tank and valve for a visual inspection, looks ok. Yes I tried advice in previous post. Turning the thumb wheel on the auto fill valve did not produce a rushing water sound. This is a one story house. Radiators are less than eight feet above the boiler.
Thanks,
Dale
 
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Old 11-18-04, 05:44 AM
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If you did not hear rushing water, then either the auto-fill valve is bad, or you have another valve closed somewhere in the boiler feed line. However, this does not make sense, since you were able to get the boiler pressure from 0 to 17. How did you do that?

Do you have shutoff valves on each radiator, and are they open?

I am assuming the cold radiators are the ones furthest from the boiler. Is this correct?
 
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Old 11-18-04, 12:57 PM
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This may souund strange but the boiler has always shown 17 psi, I think maybe my gauge is stuck. All vavles are open. I'm going out now to find (I hope) a new auto fill valve.
Thanks
Dale
 
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Old 11-18-04, 01:23 PM
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Thumbs up

Might get a new gauge also.


ED
 
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Old 11-18-04, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ditchdriver
Yes, Ive tried it both ways. As for how much pressure in the boiler, there seems to be zero.
Is there zero psi or 17 lbs.? You've said both, so I don't know what the pressure is.
 
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Old 11-19-04, 01:53 AM
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The gauge reads 17 psi, however I far as I can tell the system has no pressure. I've opened many different bleeders but nothing comes out. No air no water, nada.
 
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Old 11-20-04, 09:53 AM
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Did you check the auto fill valve see if it works for you



ED
 
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Old 11-20-04, 02:09 PM
ditchdriver
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Can't get my forced hot water system to bleed

Whew! It's finally warm in here. I removed the fill valve and took it down to the plumbing supply, the man told this sucker (brass) came over on the Mayflower. He also told me my system was set up wrong. So I bought a new fill valve, expansion tank and gauge. After some retro fitting and cussing everything is fine. Thanks to all who helped me out.
Dale
 
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Old 11-20-04, 02:19 PM
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We are glad you finally have it working. Curious about what was wrong with the setup and why you needed to replace the expansion tank.

Thanks for posting back.
 
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Old 11-20-04, 04:03 PM
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If the original fill valve was the dreaded fill-trol(Troll) then the tank would have been threaded to match the valve and not a pipe thread. Even though it would run into a pipe fitting, it is not tapered so it would leak. That is the reason I always leave the fill-trol part in the curcuit and just take the regulating pieces out of it and add a new auto feed into it. You are probably better off with the new parts and if it works now, you did the right thing.
Another job well done, and without the cussing it would have just been another walk in the park.

Ken
 
  #20  
Old 11-20-04, 11:33 PM
ditchdriver
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Can't get my forced hot water system to bleed

I was told the fill valve was in the wrong place. On the supply side instead on the return side. As far as the expansion tank, it looked very old and figured as long as I had it off I'd replace it.
Thanks for everything,
Dale
 
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Old 11-21-04, 06:19 PM
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Unfortunately, you were given bad information. It probably won't change the outcome of your project but the automatic feed should never be on the return side of the circulator. It can be on the return side of the boiler but it should be between the circualtor and the boiler if the circulator is on the return. The reason is that every time the circulator starts, it generates a low pressure condition and it can cause a feed valve to feed a little water every time and eventually overfill the system. I have seen tons of them installed that way and almost never does it cause trouble.

Ken
 
 

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