Radiator valve removal


  #1  
Old 11-26-04, 08:30 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Radiator valve removal

Okay, I've got to replace the radiator valve. I'll describe it as best I can. It is a T joint, with the actual black round pice that you turn to regulate the steam into the radiator at the top and female threading to both sides. One side, however, has a nut holding a male threaded piece to it. It's old, over 70 years old and is leaking water onto the hardwood floor. I bought the piece to replace it, a pipe wrench and sealant. I can't move any of the pipes but I can unscrew or loosen the side with the nut. What's the best way to remove it? I guess I should find some WD-40, but then what, really, I don't see how I could get it off. Thanks in advance for any help.
 
  #2  
Old 11-27-04, 06:21 AM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,015
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
The T fitting you describe is the radiator valve, the black part you turn is the valve handle, the big nut is part of a union which is a fitting that lets you connect and disconnect without having to twirl the radiator around to tighten it. The part that the nut stays on that is screwed into the radiator is called the spud, even though it doesn't look anything like a potato. I'm not sure which part you bought but if you replace anything, you will need to replace the valve and the spud. They are a pair. The threads on the nut and the shape of the spud are matched to the valve. In order to replace the valve, you need to take the nut off and spin the valve off of the vertical pipe. If your system is steam, you can do this by just turning the boiler off and going for it. If your system is hot water, you will need to drain it below the level of the radiator before attempting to dismantle. It will probably be difficult to get the valve off and you may need to move the radiator slightly for clearance. You will probably need a spud wrench to remove the spud. It will be the hardest part of the jpb. If you need any more details, post back.

Ken

You didn't say exactly where the water was coming from.
 
  #3  
Old 11-27-04, 08:10 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Right, right! However, the valve is not connected directly to a vertical pipe. It is connected first to a hoizontal double treaded pipe. That piece of pipe is screwed into the vertical pipe. My brother figured you'd have to unscrew this horizontal double treaded (or treaded on both ends) piece in order to disconnect the valve. It all seemed fine and dandy, but the side screwed into the vavle doesn't budge so when it is rotated the valve turns with it. It would come out if there was clearance between the valve handle and the floor (when rotate 180 degrees). That way I could just spin it until it separated. I think I can saw off the handle and then do it...?

The part I got to replace it is a new valve, spud and nut and all. The water was dripping from where the spud meets the radiator. I wanted to buy some sealant to stop the water, but the folks at the construction supply store said I needed to replace the valve. The water, I'm assuming, is coming from after the heat has come up and trapped steam condenses.

Now, from what you explain I gather that I should first screw the nut away from the valve, over the spud. Then I guess I should turn the spud in the opposite dircetion to unscrew it from the radiator? Then I couold remove the valve handle to give it some clearance between it and the floor and spin it off the other horizontal pipe. I may have to buy a new "double threaded horizontal" pipe since it is giving trouble in coming off (and since my brother stripped parts of the exposed threading trying to wrench it off). Thanks again for sorting through this with me.
 
  #4  
Old 11-27-04, 10:51 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Okay, what I bought to replace the valve is the first one on this page

http://www.hammondvalve.com/hd/pdfs/102_108_201.pdf

I think it's figure 102, and mine reads 200/W0G

A picture just says a thousand words. Also, are there any tricks of the trade for removing stubborn pipe, or do you just WD-40 until it budges?
 
  #5  
Old 11-27-04, 11:02 AM
majakdragon's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: N.E. Arkansas
Posts: 7,475
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
70 years is a lot of heating and cooling. It has become "comfortable" with it's place and it will take a LOT of coaxing to get it to move. Pipe wrench for turning and probably another one for back-up to keep from loosening other piping. May also have to use a "cheater" (piece of pipe over the wrench handle to make it longer) to get it to budge. Good luck.
 
  #6  
Old 11-27-04, 01:29 PM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,015
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Pipe nipples are cheap so don't worry about ruining the one going into the valve. Just buy another one the same length. You may be able to take the valve apart where the bonnet meets the body. It is a close fit and is not tapered. It usually takes a sharp rap on the wrench to get it to come loose. Then it will spin apart by hand. Everything else you described was right on. Forge tthe WD-40, it won't penetrate anywhere that will help you. It will just lubricate where you want your wrench to grip. Good luck with the spud. Post if you need more help.

Ken
 
  #7  
Old 11-27-04, 05:28 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Phew, that was one of the most labor intensive things I have ever done in my life. Alrighty, I just took off the old valve and it looks in excellent shape... I really do hope it was the reason for the leak. I'm taking a break before I put the new valve on now (I got frustrated trying to get the nipple off, it's still in there and I have no clue how to get that off other than continue to wrench it with the pipe setup which I was using long before it was suggested, but I appreciate the suggestion). I pryed, then wrenced off the valve handle column, then rotated that off the nipple. Can't seem to get the nipple off the verticle pipe. Btw, when you said nipple, you did mean what I called the double side threaded pipe right?

So, can you quickly run through getting the new valve on just so I do this right? Instead of Teflon tape I was sold some $9 thing in a can marked 5. So I would appreciate if your answer included applying the sealant. I looks and seems simple, but when I get it back on and it still leaks I'd like to confidently rule out the valve being the reason because I'll know I did it right! A quick response would help alot (I have to heat off until I close the system). Thanks again!
 
  #8  
Old 11-27-04, 06:32 PM
majakdragon's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: N.E. Arkansas
Posts: 7,475
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
The sealent you bought sounds like Rectorseal #5. Best there is for all piping applications, water, gas, steam, oil. You can't go wrong with it. Brush it on the OUTSIDE threads. None on the inside ones. This would be wasteful and possibly create an unwanted clog. i will bow out and let KField take over as he is the expert in this field.
Good luck with your project.
 
  #9  
Old 11-27-04, 07:05 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Rectorseal #5, that's the stuff! Is it really that good? Better than Teflon tape? Should I then use it for everything I'd use Teflon tape for? That's good to know. Outside threading, got it, thanks Majak.
 
  #10  
Old 11-27-04, 08:02 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Darn, I met a new obstacle. I can't get the original spud out. Do I have to have a spud wrench to get the spud out? The width of spud showing isn't even close to the width of the pipe wrench I have so I can't get it on there (by the way, Rigid pipe wrenches are no joke, the are expensive but worth every penny). Any ideas about this?
 
  #11  
Old 11-28-04, 05:34 AM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,015
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I warned you about that spud. They are a bear. Without a spud wrench, you could try cutting the nut off so that you can get a bite on the end of it with your wrench. I thought you said the nipple was loose in the elbow. If not, don't worry about it. Leave it in. Sorry I was unavailable last evening.

Ken
 
  #12  
Old 11-28-04, 09:42 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
It happens (about being unavailable). So I bought a spud wrench 5 minutes ago. 2 minutes later, the buds inside the spud break off. Now the stupid spud wrench I just spent $13 bucks on is useless. Talk about a bear. Alright, so now I have to buy a saw capable of sawing through pipe? Unless there are any clever ideas? Anyone?
 
  #13  
Old 11-28-04, 10:54 AM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,015
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
All you should need is a hacksaw and a pair of pliers big enough to hold onto the nut while you cut it. Cut on an angle and cut at 2 places. Then take the pliers and break the nut in half; Good luck.

Ken
 
  #14  
Old 11-28-04, 11:15 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Alright, this will show you exactly how little I know, but what kind of blade would I need for this hacksaw? Will a $3 bi-metaloy blade do the trick?
 
  #15  
Old 11-28-04, 12:55 PM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,015
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Yes, a regular hacksaw blade will do the trick. Either 18 or 24 teeth per inch will do nicely. The nut is brass and should cut easily.

Ken
 
  #16  
Old 11-28-04, 01:21 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks, I'll try it!
 
  #17  
Old 11-28-04, 02:15 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Okay, I'm going to run out and get a new saw blade now. If I'm successful, so I won't have to post another question and wait for a response, in what order do I reassemble the components?

I'm wondering how do I get both sides of the nipple into the vertical pipe and valve simultaneously. I guess it will be alot easier because everything is new and should fit with little problems. I suppose the nut and spud configuration would come next, then I just slip the nut back onto the valve and viola... no?
 
  #18  
Old 11-28-04, 02:35 PM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,015
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
You will need to take apart the new valve like I described a few posts back. Put some Rectorseal on the threads and tighten it. Don't whte knuckle it. Only 1 turn past hand tight is necessary to seal it up. The same holds true for the spud. Don't put any sealer on the face of the union. Snug up the union nut and fire up the system. If you need more time to do the repairs, you could cap the nipple and start up the system.

Ken
 
  #19  
Old 11-29-04, 11:43 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Bad news. I can't get the bonnet off of the new valve. I nearly rounded it off trying to wrench it off. This is getting ridiculous (I'm really frustrated now). It took me all night to hammer and chisel off the old spud. Nothing else worked. Whatever whomever used to install it is strong (like cement). So I rectorsealed the new spud in and spun it about 1 and a quarter past hand tight. Now I'm trying desperately to get the bonnet off the valve to no avail. I tried to give it a few raps with the chisel, then I beat it with the wrench. In between I kept wrenching and wrenching. I want to bring it down to the local hardware and panel supply store and ask them to get it off (but I bought it at Home Depot and they sure wouldn't help). Maybe I'll call Hammond Valve company and queue them? Help!!!
 
  #20  
Old 11-29-04, 11:51 AM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,015
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
If the nipple is long enough to replace with 2 nipples and a union, you could do that. You will need at least 3 inches to make up that combo but it would prevent you from having to take the valve apart.

Ken
 
  #21  
Old 11-29-04, 12:03 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
The nipple I had was 2in. Uhm... I suppose I could buy 2 1in nipples and screw them in farther into both the valve and the vertical pipe. Is the connector particularly thick? Seeing as how you recommend me having three inches of clearance, I'd probably need 1 inch of space for the connector, no? They aren't too expensive, I'll pcik them up tonight and try that before I panic. Thanks Mr. Field... you're amazing.
 
  #22  
Old 11-30-04, 09:08 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Okay, I have another dumb question. Since I could move the radiator and not the vertical pipe, could I invert my connections? Exactly, could I put the spud into the vertical pipe, and the nipple into the radiator? I only ask becasue I am at wit's end and can't call a plumber until Thursday (and I would really like to finish what I started). I tried the union with smaller nipples but I don't have enough room (not without making new grooves in the hardwood floor and I'm NOT about to do that). I put the spud in the radiator already with the Rector seal but I suppose it hasn't completely set and I'd probably have little trouble removing that (with my brand new spud wrench). So that would be my best option, if it is possible. Thanks.
 
  #23  
Old 11-30-04, 03:14 PM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,015
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I suppose you could do it that way. The end result will be the same. As a matter of fact, that is a pretty good idea. Go for it and let me know how it all works out.

Ken
 
  #24  
Old 11-30-04, 04:26 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Phew, I was scared to death you were going to no that I couldn't do it that way and I'd have to spend money on a Plumber. I think this could be it then. I'm going to go right to wrenching now! Wrenching, that's my new term for plumbing after this mess.
 
  #25  
Old 11-30-04, 08:35 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 278
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Got it! After 23 posts, but it sure does feel good. So I fired up the boiler and after the heat came up then stopped, the pan I put under the valve was moist but nothing leaked... even a couple hours afterwards. KField you were only too patient and helped me to no end. I appreciate it.

What got my mind churning, ironically, was a plumber I met at Home Depot while looking for the shorter nipples and the union. He asked me what I was up to and suggested I try bolting two floor flanges together with a "rainbow" something-or-other as a gasket if the union took up too much space. I asked him if that wouldn't leak and he said that I'd be surprised by the things plumbers do and come up with to do get a job done. He also assured me that it would be tight and wouldn't leak at all. I found a shorter union at another store but all the same he made me look at the radiator differently. That's theonly way on Earth I would have ever come up with a fix on my own. And thanks for the knowledge base guys. I feel like I accomplished something, although I'm sure you all probably see this as no big deal. Besides I saved a few bucks a plumber would have charged (maybe more than a few as more than likely a plumber would have made me ante up for a new radiator altogether).

In short, thanks.
 
  #26  
Old 12-01-04, 05:09 AM
KField's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3,015
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Good job. I'm sure you saved some money but most of all, you accomplished what you set out to do. You have a new found respect for the ingenuity that gets the job done. I wasn't to fond of the flange idea but it also would have worked. (Maybe circulator flanges but not floor flanges). It would have looked a little funky though.

Ken
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: