Zone valve working in reverse.

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  #1  
Old 01-21-05, 01:34 PM
green-bean
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Question Zone valve working in reverse.

Has anyone else come across this?

Hot water baseboard zone valve springs open when no power is applied to the motor. Consequently, valve closes with power, but motor soon becomes very hot. I should probably mention that I live in a condo, so replacing the valve itself would, I assume, be rather tricky if that is what is requred.

Thanks!
 
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  #2  
Old 01-21-05, 02:02 PM
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Automag zone valves work that way. And zone valves with synchronous motors are built to work that way. The valve reaches the end of its travel and stalls the motor. They do get hot. Are you having a problem with it or just asking how they work? You also failed to mention the brand of valve. That would be most helpful.

Ken
 
  #3  
Old 01-21-05, 02:54 PM
green-bean
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It's an Erie valve with a Honeywell motor and thermostat. What I mean is, if I turn the temperature up on the thermostat, the motor comes on and closes the valve. Are there thermostats that work in reverse for such cases?
 
  #4  
Old 01-21-05, 04:54 PM
RBean
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Normally Open / Normally Closed

Zone valve motors (actuators) come as normally open or normally closed.

A normally open (N.O.) actuator requires power to close.

A normally closed (N.C.) actuator requires power to open.

Your thermostat is a switch...just like your light switch except it works on temperature.

There are literally hundreds of different makes and models.

Ideally the thermostat is matched as a pair to the zone valve, ie: normally open thermostat with a normally open zone valve and vice versa.

If you have a modern type you should only have to change out the actuator not the valve itself.

The reason why apt & condo's use N.O. actuators is so that in the event of power failure or malfunction the suite won't freeze and bust up the plumbing and heating pipes.

You can confim what you have by looking at the name plate on the zone valve.

Good luck
 
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Old 01-21-05, 04:58 PM
RBean
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?

I'd be surprised if you had an Erie motor on a Honeywell valve...maybe an Erie thermostat controlling the Honeywell Actuator or a Honeywell Thermostat controlling an Erie actuator...

Are you sure?
 
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Old 01-21-05, 05:02 PM
green-bean
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Lightbulb

Thanks for your responses, guys! They are very much appreciated.

Apparently the thermostat I have works for multiple purposes. I traced the connecting wires and there are 3 leading into the mercury tube, connecting at either end. I changed one wire from the wall to another place on the thermostat so that the connection is made at the other end of the tube and it now works perfectly! I guess I just had to stop and concentrate on something else for a while.

Thanks again!

 
  #7  
Old 01-21-05, 05:04 PM
green-bean
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I'm still quite new at this heating thing . . . what is the actuator?
I know I have a Honeywell thermostat and motor, but this thermostat replaced an Erie thermostat and the Honeywell motor looks to have replaced an Erie, as it is in an Erie Mount. Strange?
 
  #8  
Old 01-21-05, 05:27 PM
RBean
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Motor = Actuator = the thing your thermostat controls

Normally its a silver box mounted to the brass colored valve. It will have wires coming out of it.

Its possible (highly unlikely) that the parts are interchangeable unless its something new...

Your thermostat may or may not have the ability to be wired N.O. or N.C.

Some do - some don't...if you have the instructions it will describe a SPDT switch...single pole - double throw. ...three terminal screws.

Your solution may be in just switching wires in the thermostat.
 
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Old 01-21-05, 05:32 PM
RBean
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Ah...I see you have it figured out

Congrats Grasshopper
 
  #10  
Old 01-21-05, 06:04 PM
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Just for information purposes, Erie zone valves use the same motor as Honeywell valves and If Erie has their name on their motors, it would make sense that they were interchangeable too. I suspected that when you said the valve was closed when there was power that you were incorrect, but I have not seen everything yet either. What you have is a regular old zone valve that opens when there is a 24 volt circuit through the thermostat. But you have a 3 wire thermostat sub-base that has the option of being used for heat or cool. You had the cooling wires connected and that only opened the valve when the room was hot and it could not get hot if the valve was closed. In changing the wire, you now have a normal thermostat circuit operating the valve the way it was meant to be. Success will give you that warm feeling when you are in the heating business.

Ken
 
  #11  
Old 01-22-05, 11:45 AM
RBean
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Yes the actual motors are made by

Syncron...but the motor is mounted to a linkage and bracket which typically is unique to the individual zone valve manufacturer.

Its been a while since I've sold these low cost valves but when I did, you couldn't switch them...the valve manufacturers did everything they could to prevent the competiton from getting the replacement business.

Its possible that this has changed...can't see Honeywell making it easy on Erie (Invensys) or vice versa.
 
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Old 01-22-05, 09:52 PM
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Residential zone valves don't normally have linkages. Honeywell & Erie use a gear motor while Taco & B&G use a heat motor. BTW, Honeywell & Erie are interchangable. I use Erie motors on Honeywell valves all the time. Same exact motor, two different boxes & prices.
 
  #13  
Old 01-23-05, 02:07 PM
RBean
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Cool...

I'm going from memory here (not a good thing) but I refer to the linkage as the mechanics joining the geared wheel connected to the motor shaft coming out of the syncron motor...which is then connected to the 90 deg rotating ball plug or gate plug depending on the brand...I suppose it could be considered part of the motor. This is I understand is different than the verticle linkages used in commercial and industrial control valves.

Its good for the contractor/customer that todays parts are interchangeable...does this also apply to Flair and White Rogers zone valves?
 
  #14  
Old 01-23-05, 03:00 PM
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No, Flair and White Rodgers are a pain in the butt. It hasn't been that long that Honeywell has had a motor replacement for their valves. It seems like yesterday that you had to change the whole head and you had to open the system for that.

Ken
 
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