Crown Boiler
#1
12-21-05, 02:32 PM
Crown Boiler
Grady or anyone else,
My last contractor came in with an estimate with a Crown Tobago Oil Furnace Mod # TWZ100. The efficiency is 84.3, which seems lower than the others, how big of a deal is it? Should I be concerned. He is putting in an Indirect HW heater Crown Max, plus heat in the basement. Estimate is much less than the others, but a different boiler, not a Burnham like originally mentioned. He was referred to me, so it is not someone I am concerned about the work. Grady, if you read this, I know you mentioned you have a Crown, how is this model. My house is a ranch, maybe a little over 2,000 feet w/ 2 zones, adding a 3rd for the basement, plus another for the new indirect water heater, switched from Electric water heat. Sorry to be a bother, but I want to make sure I do the right thing for $6K. Thanks for all your assistance to ever posts.
Tim
My last contractor came in with an estimate with a Crown Tobago Oil Furnace Mod # TWZ100. The efficiency is 84.3, which seems lower than the others, how big of a deal is it? Should I be concerned. He is putting in an Indirect HW heater Crown Max, plus heat in the basement. Estimate is much less than the others, but a different boiler, not a Burnham like originally mentioned. He was referred to me, so it is not someone I am concerned about the work. Grady, if you read this, I know you mentioned you have a Crown, how is this model. My house is a ranch, maybe a little over 2,000 feet w/ 2 zones, adding a 3rd for the basement, plus another for the new indirect water heater, switched from Electric water heat. Sorry to be a bother, but I want to make sure I do the right thing for $6K. Thanks for all your assistance to ever posts.
Tim
#2
12-21-05, 03:38 PM
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Tim
No bother at all. Glad to help if I can. That is one reason I'm here.
I have no problem with the TWZ boilers. For the money I feel they are an excellent piece of equipment in the right application. Any pin boiler, including the TWZ is not the best for your application (indirect water heater). In a Crown, I would MUCH prefer the CT series. I have a CT-3 in my house & liked it so well, I put in a CT-5 for my parents. http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_c.asp
I have no problem with the TWZ boilers. For the money I feel they are an excellent piece of equipment in the right application. Any pin boiler, including the TWZ is not the best for your application (indirect water heater). In a Crown, I would MUCH prefer the CT series. I have a CT-3 in my house & liked it so well, I put in a CT-5 for my parents. http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_c.asp
#3
12-21-05, 04:59 PM
Grady, Thank you. How much of a difference is there in price between the CT-3 or CT-5 and the Tobago TWZ, if you should know off hand? If not, I will try find a plumbing supply store that carry's them. And, what is the main difference between the two that makes the CT series that much better in your mind? Thanks again. Tim
#4
12-21-05, 05:16 PM
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Crown CT vs. TWZ
The CT series is far better suited for a heat only or heat & indirect hot water system than the TWZ because it (the CT) is a 3 pass, low water volume, boiler. The 3 pass design will extract more heat from the fire & be easier to clean. The lower water volume means it will heat faster, especially when calling for just domestic hot water. Refering to a catalog a couple of years old, I found the CT-4 to be listed at about 20% less than a TWZ-100. At the same firing rate (1.00 gph), the CT-4's efficiency is listed at 86.1%. There may be updated efficiency ratings on Crown's web site.
Has anyone done a heat loss calculation to determine the correct boiler size for your home?
Has anyone done a heat loss calculation to determine the correct boiler size for your home?
#5
12-21-05, 06:29 PM
No, no one has done a heat loss for the house. We bought the house over a year ago, and a lot of draft in the doors and such. We had a service contract on the current boiler and they said the efficiecy was like 72%. I appreciate all your input. I am going to speak to the plumber that is going to do my furnace about the Freeport CT. Thanks again. Any other suggestions? Tim
#6
12-22-05, 06:36 PM
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Heat Loss Calculation
You can do the calculation yourself or have contractors do it but I can tell you from experience that nearly all of the heating equipment out there is WAY oversized. Oversized equipment up to about 20% is ok since it gives you some cushion for the unusually cold days. More than 20% oversizing is a waste of money both for larger than needed equipment but also in increased operating cost. There are some free calculation programs out there. How accurate they are, I don't know. There is one available for about $50 from: http://www.hvaccomputer.com
From what I have read, it is a very good program & comes with tech support.
From what I have read, it is a very good program & comes with tech support.
#8
05-12-08, 03:57 PM
Crown Freeport CT versus System 2000
Panel -I am trying to decide between the Crown Freeport CT w/ 79gal Mega Stor and EK1. I am replacing a 22 yo Burnham oil fired steel boiler with tankless coil. Both have low water content (CT 5.5 gallons, EK 2.5 gal) for fast heat up. I was told the EK can save me 25% on my fuel bill for heat and hot water. how much % would the Crown save me? can the CT match the efficiency of the EK's Energy Manager. Is the CT as quiet as the EK?
Thanks for all the info.
Thanks for all the info.
#9
05-12-08, 05:30 PM
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79 Gallon Indirect?
Why would you want to store 80 gallons of hot water even in a super insulated tank? Large whirlpool tub maybe?
The CT is not as quiet as the EK. Without the addition of some kind of control system such as Beckett's Heat Manager, I doubt the CT could match the EK for fuel savings but nearly any low mass boiler with an indirect should save you close to 25% in fuel consumption as compared to your present boiler.
It's no secret that I'm not particularly fond of EK boilers. One major downside to them, in my opinion, is you are stuck with a sole supplier for things like the manager, combustion chambers, insulation panels, etc. & I personally hate being tied into a sole supplier.
The CT is not as quiet as the EK. Without the addition of some kind of control system such as Beckett's Heat Manager, I doubt the CT could match the EK for fuel savings but nearly any low mass boiler with an indirect should save you close to 25% in fuel consumption as compared to your present boiler.
It's no secret that I'm not particularly fond of EK boilers. One major downside to them, in my opinion, is you are stuck with a sole supplier for things like the manager, combustion chambers, insulation panels, etc. & I personally hate being tied into a sole supplier.
#10
05-13-08, 06:03 PM
Crown Freeport CT versus System 2000
Yes, we are installing a whirlpool tub that takes 65 gallons (Sanijet). There are 2 EK installers in my area and hopefully I won't need replacement parts for years. An installer is coming by tomorrow night to give me a quote on the EK1. Anything in particular I should ask him? If the choice of suppliers for parts were equal would you change your decision?
You mention any low mass boiler w/ indirect would save me 25% (i.e, MPO and Crown CT) so would the EK1 save closer to 40%? I used 600 gal last season and have a 1800 sf split level. At $4/gal x 240 gal, thats a savings of over $800. Pretty cool.
How much would a single pass CI like Burnham V8 or WM Gold save and where does that savings come from, better insulation?
You mention any low mass boiler w/ indirect would save me 25% (i.e, MPO and Crown CT) so would the EK1 save closer to 40%? I used 600 gal last season and have a 1800 sf split level. At $4/gal x 240 gal, thats a savings of over $800. Pretty cool.
How much would a single pass CI like Burnham V8 or WM Gold save and where does that savings come from, better insulation?
#11
05-13-08, 06:56 PM
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Savings
I don't think you would see a major difference in the fuel savings with a CT, MPO, or any other similar boiler as compared to the EK. This presumes similar control systems.
Regarding the single pass boilers: I hate seeing a pin style boiler set up as cold start. Most of the ones I've seen so installed have a lot of condensation problems.
Parts availability: No it would not change my mind. Experience with the EK tells me they just won't last like cast iron. In some cases, they may last 30+ years but most I've seen are well on their way out by age 20-25. I can add insulation if I choose & did so on my own boiler.
Regarding the single pass boilers: I hate seeing a pin style boiler set up as cold start. Most of the ones I've seen so installed have a lot of condensation problems.
Parts availability: No it would not change my mind. Experience with the EK tells me they just won't last like cast iron. In some cases, they may last 30+ years but most I've seen are well on their way out by age 20-25. I can add insulation if I choose & did so on my own boiler.
#12
05-14-08, 07:19 AM
Any boiler in the same efficiency range will not be much different in fuel usage. The more important issues is boiler sizing and near boiler piping. For example the sizing and near boiler piping will save you more than a few points of efficiency will ever save you. Install a boiler rated at 88% and oversize it and/or don't pipe it properly and a boiler operating at 82% properly sized and piped will save you more money.
We put way too much emphasis on efficiencies. We want the most efficiency but than oversize or improperly pipe the unit.
I have changed near boiler piping on some jobs and saved fuel. Most of the time it is adding a boiler bypass or changing away with p/s closed spaced tees and installing p/s without a loop.
We put way too much emphasis on efficiencies. We want the most efficiency but than oversize or improperly pipe the unit.
I have changed near boiler piping on some jobs and saved fuel. Most of the time it is adding a boiler bypass or changing away with p/s closed spaced tees and installing p/s without a loop.
#13
05-15-08, 06:08 PM
I understand the Beckett Energy Manager works by producing longer run times and less cycles. So it sounds like you would prefer correctly installing a CT or MPO with Beckett Heat Manager which would then realize the same fuel savings as EK plus longer life? Other benefits would include parts availability but downside is loudness.
If go with the CT I need to match it up with a good Indirect. Would the Crown MS-40 or 53 be a good choice for a house of 4 and the whirlpool?
If go with the CT I need to match it up with a good Indirect. Would the Crown MS-40 or 53 be a good choice for a house of 4 and the whirlpool?
