New burner for OLD boiler

Reply

  #1  
Old 08-16-06, 01:36 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 37
Question New burner for OLD boiler

Hello,
I have an original american standard hydronic heating with original oil burner (1948). This past year the burner started to smoke a bit and the techs said it was not getting enough combustion air. It is an Ideal Model DF6 Arcoflame oil burner. The rest of the furnace is in reasonable condition, given its age. I want to replace the burner with a beckett or similar burner and add an inline oil filter. There is only one zone.
My questions are as follows:
Which Beckett model should I choose, NX, AF, AFII, AFG?
Which controller?
How do I make sure the transformer is safe to disconnect?
Will the new burner mount on the same three bolts?
How do I select the correct size air tube length?
Currently it is using a 1.0 gal/hr 60 degree nozzle, should I maintain this rating?
I know I should replace the entire unit, but that is really not an option right now. I only burn about 200 gal per season.
Thanks,
Lou
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 08-16-06, 03:57 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
New burner

Not to discourage you but honestly, only burning 200 gal/yr, you would be better off saving your money & putting in a new boiler next year.
 
  #3  
Old 08-16-06, 04:33 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 15,834
Considering the age and the problems, the boiler should be replaced for safety reasons. The new boilers are much more efficient than older models.
 
  #4  
Old 08-16-06, 06:36 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 37
I really need to change the burner now before the heating season. I barely made it through last winter. The rest of the unit functions well. If I install a new, more efficient model, I will lose a lot of radiant heat in the basement, which has no convectors. I can get a new burner at cost, install it myself. I will have the service guys tune it. It really comes down to $600 vs $4500.

Thanks,
Lou
 
  #5  
Old 08-16-06, 06:55 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Replacement burner

Let me clear up a common misconception. The new burner will likely not be much more efficient than the old one. You will not loose the radiant heat into the basement. You will have a much cleaner burn but the efficiencies are gained mostly in boiler design.
If you really want to change the burner, you will need to line the old steel chamber (if you have the boiler I think you do) with a wet pack or you can remove the steel chamber & line the inside of the boiler. Failure to do so will result in the prompt destruction of the chamber due to the much hotter flame. To do this you have to remove the front of the boiler. Can you do that without snapping off studs? To mount the new burner you will need to use a pedistal mount or you will need to drill & tap new mounting bolts into the front plate of the boiler.
 
  #6  
Old 08-16-06, 07:44 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 37
I am not overly concerned about the amount of oil I burn, I don't expect a drastic decrease in oil costs. The unit is cast iron, I don't think there is a steel chamber. How would I tell the difference? If the mounting flange is an issue, I have no problem with the pedistal mount or buying the adaptor kit. I would post pictures, but I don't have that option. I know that it appears that I am persueing the penny wise, pound foolish stragety, but many of the original boilers in my neighborhood have replacement burners.
Lou
 
  #7  
Old 08-17-06, 05:17 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Pics & Burner

If take some pictures you can post them on photobucket or similar photo hosting web site & provide a link here.

Is this boiler a model A3 by some chance?
 
  #8  
Old 08-17-06, 05:27 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 37
Grady,
The only numbers legible on the data plate are:
64 1BJ-1
300 480
1.35
The last one is the nozzle. I pulled the burner today and cleaned the burn chamber.

Lou
 
  #9  
Old 08-17-06, 05:33 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Numbers

Sorry, no help. Do any of the pipes (usually the one the circulator is on) attach to the boiler at the bottom, below the level of the burner?
 
  #10  
Old 08-17-06, 05:43 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 37
yes, the return from the pump comes is on the side where the burner is attached, below the burner. The chamber is brick filled on the sides.
Lou
 
  #11  
Old 08-17-06, 05:47 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Brick lined chamber

Sorry, I'm drawing a blank on trying to visualize your boiler. Those pics could be a big help.
 
  #12  
Old 08-17-06, 05:55 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 37
My camera will be back tomorrow, I'll post some pics. Thanks for your help and time.

Lou
 

Last edited by Ednor; 08-17-06 at 07:29 PM.
  #13  
Old 08-18-06, 09:26 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 37
here are the links:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/Lou_p/Dsc09784.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/Lou_p/Dsc09783.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/Lou_p/Dsc09782.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/Lou_p/Dsc09781.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/Lou_p/Dsc09780.jpg
 
  #14  
Old 08-18-06, 10:44 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,389
Wink

This past year the burner started to smoke a bit and the techs said it was not getting enough combustion air.
I think Id call another tech to work on the burner. I cant see why you cant get another year out of the burner. Blower clean, air tube and cone ok pump psi ok
Currently it is using a 1.0 gal/hr 60 degree nozzle, should I maintain this rating?
If this has been good for you yes stay with it. Im with Grady we dont know what the chamber inside is like and if made for that nozzle.

ED
 
  #15  
Old 08-18-06, 02:32 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
New Burner

From the looks of that boiler, my advise is like that of Ed. Call a different tech (one with experience on these old boilers) & save your money. I don't think the boiler is safe to install a flame retention burner.
 
  #16  
Old 08-18-06, 03:26 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 37
What are the issues with a flame retention burner?
Lou
 
  #17  
Old 08-18-06, 04:20 PM
Grady's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 13,928
Burner

A flame retention burner burns with a much hotter flame.
 
  #18  
Old 08-18-06, 04:26 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,443
Likes Received: 8
I'm going to concur with Ed and Grady. If the burner operates at all there is probably nothing seriously wrong with it. The most likely cause of a little smoke is a seriously worn nozzle. The second most likely cause is the blower wheel and/or the air passages being choked with dirt and lint. The most expensive problem would be a failing pump that cannot output the proper (100psi) pressure consistantly.

At that low of a consumption it would be (in my opinion) foolish to replace the burner. Get another serviceperson and save the $600. for the replacement of the boiler.
 
  #19  
Old 12-17-08, 04:40 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1
Hi Lou, I have an A-3. What a trooper! It was put in my house in 1941. I replaced the burner a couple of years ago. It wasn't real efficient since the front plate got cracked. I just pulled the A-3 400 lb beast and put in a Weil McLain CGi-4 myself. Something to do. It works differently. All those big iron radiators hold lots of water. Lots of pipes, multiple trips for parts and codes have changed. Anyway, I'm not out to sell anything but if you need any parts you can have them. Keep the A3 going if you can. The change over to the new boiler was a tediouse pain in the neck. You only burn 200 gal a season? You must not be in the great white north. I'm in VA and burned 200 gals in 2 months. They hadn't invented good insulation in 1941. I have a woodstove (;>) Have a great holiday!
 
  #20  
Old 12-17-08, 02:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 37
I installed a new burner, now on its second year. Works great and burns nice and clean. This year I added r30 to the attic, and now it runs even less. Don't need any parts, but will probably convert to gas in the next couple of years.

Lou
 
  #21  
Old 12-17-08, 03:25 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: A Galaxy From Afar
Posts: 421
Which burner did you go with? I recently installed a Carlin 100CRD to replace the ArcoFlame in an old American Standard Oakmont boiler (late '50s vintage). Nice improvment in lower oil use, lower smoke and higher CO2. Wouldn't mind getting another for a backup.

Al.
 
  #22  
Old 12-17-08, 03:45 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 37
I went with a Beckett AFG with a .85, 80 degree nozzle.
 
  #23  
Old 12-17-08, 05:02 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: A Galaxy From Afar
Posts: 421
The AFG is a decent burner. I noticed that the original burner was using a 1.0 gph nozzle. Is the Beckett downfired or is the pump pressure been raised for the same firing rate?

One thing I'm running into is that the chamber is round @ 11" diameter. Recommended max firing rate is 1.00 to 1.10 gph. While the boiler is rated at 1.75 gph max. So I need to downfire quite a bit to keep the flame from off the far side of the chamber.

Al.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes