New forum member's boiler search complete!

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Old 09-24-06, 09:23 AM
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New forum member's boiler search complete!

Hello,
I'm a home owner on Long Island, and this is a fairly long post 'documenting' my quest for 'knowledge' the past 4-5 weeks.

I've already posted this on Heating Help and Oil Tech Talk, where I was able to get a lot of good information from friendly people!

I hope that relating my experience will be beneficial to others in the same situation. Herewith.............

The moment of truth nears........

First and foremost I need to thank Dan Halloran and Alan Mercurio for hosting and providing two very friendly and informative forums, where home owners, like me, can go for information on heating systems.

Secondly I need to thank all the boiler-men who, incredibly, hang out here on their off time......!!! You guys are to boilers what nerds are to computers.................As Martha would say ‘...And that’s a good thing’!

A month ago I started asking about new boilers to replace our 20yr old Blueray with the leaking tankless-coil gasket. We used 1230 gallons in 2005, and 1229 in 2004, so we’re not happy, aside from the leak in the tankless.........

So I did some ‘research’, did the Heat Loss room dimensions, got some ideas and threw a couple of names ‘out there’ to get some ‘professional’ opinions. Concurrent to this we started making appointments for estimates, including one from our long-time oil supplier.

I was pretty sure on getting a Biasi B-4, a Riello, a SuperStor and outside controls (BRSO system), although I had also looked into an Energy Kinetics System 2000.

One private email reply I got from an out-of-state professional told me, flat out, “They (Energy Kinetics) are using smoke and mirrors to inflate savings potential”. He went on to say that a particular ‘expert’ stated that System 2000 has no third party verification. He went on... “They can say whatever they want. Basically they are showing no proof their product works on the website or to any official testing agency.”

Coupled with a phone conversation I had with a local oil company salesman (that sold and installed these units) who couldn’t give me any 3rd party verification, I decided to just get B-R-S-O system estimates.

Tech ‘A’ came first. Primarily a Biasi sort of guy, he asked for my home measurements to plug into the software, looked at the existing system and answered a whole list of questions I had printed out prior to meeting anyone.

Asked about the System 2000, he only had nice things to say about it, had actually installed them as well and mentioned some behind the scenes info regarding Brookhaven testing etc.

Prior to leaving he gave me a written estimate for the BRSO system and so we’d officially started looking.

A few days later I got a call from a 2-week-old email I’d sent to a local System 2000 dealer, ‘Tech B’, so I set up an appointment anyway. I listened to the pitch and all the 3rd party info that he had, but when I asked him to price the BRSO system anyway, he refused, though his site implies that he does other systems.

He gave me a reference to see a local consumer who had a recent System 2000 install, and he gave me a price for my home..............and then proceeded to add on for the extra zones he’d forgotten about.

His basic price was 7% more than ‘Tech A’ prior to the extra zones and then it was over 18% once they were figured in!!

Okay................So then I had my oil guy, ‘Tech C’, come over and he was only too happy to give me a price on the BRSO system, but without an outdoor control. “Why not? I asked.

He told me that the only people who need those are landlords who don’t want their tenants using too much oil when it’s not cold out..........Hmm.........Doesn’t that work the other way for the oil supply man? He was a few dollars less than Tech A.....

Anyway..........The last guy, ‘Tech D’ (who actually called first upon seeing a post on Heating Help’) came over finally and priced the BRSO system and his price was through the roof, frankly........Also had some less-than-complimentary things to say about stainless steel SuperStor tanks..........but he was thorough and showed me how cleaning my upstairs convectors would make them work much better.

Gee, thanks!

So that was my education, and now I had to make a decision based upon ‘This guy says, that guy says, etc’.

During all this, at some point in time, I was with my brother-in-law talking about the boiler purchase choices and he says “My sister Helen has a System 2000’ as a matter of fact”. Really?

So I’m thinking...........She has a split level, similar to ours, but in CT, and only 2 zones, while we have 3. She keeps 67F and we keep 68F.....................I figured ‘Close enough for rock & roll”.

I emailed Helen and she got her oil usage chart for the past 12 months, and I was expecting it to be different, but when she told me it was 716 gallons, total, VS our 1230 gallons I could not believe it!!!

She’s now had her System 2000 since 1993 and has had no real issues with it, so that was it for me. She’s using about 58% as much fuel as us so I’m hoping we’ll do much better now.

The system was delivered yesterday by ‘Tech A’ and installation is on Monday.

Pics and performance impressions to follow at some point..........Hopefully our oil company will drop us on suspicion of spot-buying..............

Thanks again to all, no matter how you ‘Cast’ your opinion, or ‘Steeled’ yourself in the argument. All was considered so that my wife and I could make an informed decision and we’ll live with our choice.

Best regards,
Howard
Huntington Station, NY
PS- Tech A, by the way, is Bob O'brien of Technical Heating Co,
out in Mt.Sinai. I know it's okay by Bob to mention who I'm using, but I'm not sure if this constitutes 'advertising' any more than saying what boiler we chose.
 
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  #2  
Old 09-24-06, 10:34 AM
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New Boiler

Alan & Dan are both good guys & quite knowledgeable. If I knew half of what Dan has forgotten I'd consider myself to be one sharp cookie, especially on steam.

From your post, I presume you are getting a Biasi. From what I read, they are a good boiler. Unfortuately there is not a distributor in my area so I have no first hand experience with them. Good luck with your new system. I'm sure you will see a significant decrease in fuel consumption from the BlueRay.
 
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Old 09-24-06, 11:05 AM
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Hi Grady,
Nice to meet you, and I suppose at some point very soon I'll meet the man you love to disagree with (I've done some searches, yes indeed:-), KField................

In any case, I guess you missed the paragraph where I raved about the savings that my brother-in-law's sister got with her EK System 2000...................So that is what we got..........

Yes, those disagreements:-)

In any case the Biasi is an excellent boiler and would certainly have saved a bunch over what he currently have, but given the close price point to the System 2000 we chose EK.

Only time will tell..............but I'll be sure to post about our oil usage from here on through the next year...........

Thanks for responding!

Best regards,
Howard
 
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Old 09-24-06, 10:03 PM
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KField/System 2000

Actually Ken & I agree on the vast majority of points. We just differ in our preferences in boilers. He has had good sucess with the System 2000 where I on the other hand have not.
There is no doubt the EK will save you a group of money on your fuel bill. I've just found them lacking in the durability department. Maybe you will have better longevity than most of them I've seen. Good luck with your new system.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Grady
Actually Ken & I agree on the vast majority of points. We just differ in our preferences in boilers. He has had good sucess with the System 2000 where I on the other hand have not.
There is no doubt the EK will save you a group of money on your fuel bill. I've just found them lacking in the durability department. Maybe you will have better longevity than most of them I've seen. Good luck with your new system.
Hi Grady,
Yes, those are the disagreements I was talking about, of course!

Don't forget that as a consumer, when I find a forum like this, I hit the 'search' button first and see what's being said about my problem at hand............So I saw several threads from different years and months, but always the same, er........theme:-)

Having my coffee right now, it's 5:37 and I'll be taking the last Blueray hot water shower soon...............I wonder if I'll miss the scalding water that I have to constantly adjust for, or the rumble of the burner booming to a start?

Nah..........

Have a great day, Grady!

Howard
http://www.xxxxxxxxx.com/xxxxxx.html This is some of what I do for a living by the way..
 

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Old 11-01-06, 02:45 PM
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Ek 2000

Hi All,
I just found this site after a google search. I too wanted to determine which hydronic system was best. I had researched hydronic systems prior to having an EK2 installed last month. I thought the EK2 was the best product, but upon recommending it to someone they said "I'd rather have - and am getting - the Biasi"
He wondered why I would have gotten a steel vs a cast iron boiler. In my research I never heard of the Biasi and, like Howard, had gotten several estimates yet no one recommended Biasi either...
I can only hope at this point that my new EK2 will last as long as the cast iron boilers do...
I am curious as to what the price difference is between the 2 units. Maybe that is the reason the EK2 is recommended over the Biasi?
Thanks,
Teri
 
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Old 11-04-06, 09:14 AM
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Hi Teri,
I'm sure you'll be pleased with your EK-2........I'm certainly pleased with my EK-1 so far..........

The man who installed my EK-1 has 'BIASI' for his work truck license plate..............How's that?

He loves being a Biasi dealer, but he became a System 2000 dealer back in August, took the courses down in NJ and he loves the product.

I've recommended him to someone else here on Long Island and he installed a Buderus boiler for him.................Getting the picture?

The EK-1 price was about the same as a Biasi when the Techmar controls were figured in, by the way.

As far as steel vs cast iron and how long they last? We have a family friend in CT who I referred to in my initail post who's has her EK-1 since 1993 with no problems to speak of.

If you do a search you'll probably find lots of threads regarding cast iron boilers cracking, seals leaking, or rusting out..........

I think what it comes down to in the end is how well the boiler, of any type, is installed, AND how well it is maintained!!!

I think that there's many really, potentially, good systems out there, but too many techs who are stuck in a lousy mind-set and just will not embrace new technology.

Time will tell for you and me, Teri............I'm just waiting to get my first oil delivery and see what the owner has to say regarding the amount I used since last delivery..........

I will post my usage at the end of the 12 months, good or bad...........

Best regards,
Howard
 
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Old 03-01-08, 03:54 PM
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I also just had Bob O'brien from Technical Heating replace my boiler. He did an outstanding job. This Buderus boiler is fantastic! I was debating between the System2000 and the Buderus and finally decided on the Buderus. I am now looking forward to a decrease in oil deliveries!
 
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