Hello,
It's now been 3 days since the installation, which was an all-day affair for the most part.

I just can't believe how quiet this thing is when it's running, and when it is, I still can't hear it unless I go in the boiler room. The old Blueray/Beckett used to shake the living room when it started and I could even tell when it came on while I was showering in the other end of the house.

It's basically as loud as an atmospheric gas unit. I'm sure the covered burner and outside air supply have a lot to do with this.

Of course now that there is a hot water storage tank with heat exchanger, I'm taking showers and finding that the boiler still doesn't come on.............Yes, it is powered up, according to the Energy Manager.

You can see a pic of the install here:
http://www.oiltechtalk.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=2215&start=15&sid=18718a438695ae2b00d34557f3ee0b3a

Heating season will soon be hear as well, so the real test awaits........

Regards,
Howard
http://www.xxxxxxxxxxx.com/ What I do for a livin'

 

Hi Howard,

I'm so glad I happened upon your posts here in reference to the System 2000. We really need to replace our boiler and I happened to hear a radio advertisment this morning on my drive to work mentioning the System 2000. It really looks from the website to be a nice unit. I was just wondering what kind of cost we're talking about and what kind of space the unit requires. We live on Long Island as well, in Medford, and would be looking for someone local to install the unit, so I was glad you mentioned the gentleman's name and company that installed it for you.

Thanks so much for sharing the information you learned....it's really going to be a help.

Regards,
Jackie

 

Hi Jackie,
I'll just repeat that my installer is Bob xxxxxxxxxxx of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. in Mt.Sinai.

He did a very good job and was easy to work with, did the proper BTU loss on the house prior to giving the estimate, etc.

You can get in touch with him via email at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@txxxxxxxxxxx.com or call him at xxxxxxxxxx.

He is a System 2000 dealer, but he also sells other brands as well, and he is well informed on all of them. It's generally frowned upon to talk prices in these forums, so if you would like to talk, email me at xxxxxxxxxl.com and I'll be happy to share any info I have.

If you have space constraints there are several models, some of which can go into closets, but the final determination will require Bob seeing what's available.

For a really, really in-depth forum thread regarding pros & cons from a bunch of heating pros, read this:
http://xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Heating season looms............Don't Dawdle:-)

Regards,
Howard


***Moderator's note: Personal email address removed for your protection. Directing members to other forums is not allowed***

 

Thanks so much for the information Howard and for pointing us in a direction to go to get our heating system in order. You've been a great help and this forum has been a great help. Thanks!

regards, Jackie

 

Howard, it appears you have had your System 2000 EK-1 for over a year now. How do you like it and what has the oil consumption been compared to the unit you replaced? I am in the process of selecting a replacement for my 21 year old Burnham RS-111 and I am considering the EK-1. I have quotes for the EK-1 and a Buderus. The quotes are about the same.

 

Bump... anyone else have experience with these? It seems like a good idea...

 

Hi all,
Good thing I get notices regarding private messages or I'd never remember to post followups:-\

My experience with the System 2000 EK-1 has been very, very good in terms of cutting down fuel usage, and in not making itself 'obvious' by being really, really quiet and not needing any servicing.

The prior two years we used 1230 and 1228 gallons of oil, but in the time period from installation in 9/06 through 9/07 we used 790 gallons.

Obviously it would be much more accurate to use degree days, but I can clearly remember having some really warm spells and some really cold spells in all of those years.

Given the current price of oil (just paid threethirteen/gal 3 days ago) the payoff will be about 4-5 years.

The older unit that my brother-in-law's sister owns, by the way (1993) is still going strong so they do seem to hold up.

In the end, I will say that any well made unit can be trumped by a bad, uninformed installer.

John Marran, who developed the System 2000, will be sorely missed.............He really helped to raise awareness about the importance of seasonal efficiency (as opposed to AFUE) being supremely important in rating of hot water heating/dhw boilers.

Best regards,
Howard Emerson

 

Great! Thanks for the feedback Howard.

 

The company for whom I work installed quite a few EK-1 boilers. They are efficient but seem to be about a 20 year boiler. The plate heat exchanger they use for domestic hot water has a history of failure as does the combustion chamber & back insulation. The plate heat exchanger would be an non-issue with a true indirect as opposed to the water heater they use as a storage tank. Due to the high maintenance costs we quit selling Energy Kinetics several years ago. When I put a boiler in my house (converted from electric baseboard) I did not use an EK even though I could have gotten it a good bit cheaper than the boiler I chose. EK's efficiency comes primarily from their control system & insulation. Buderus has their Ecomatic(?) which should yield similar true efficiencies & I feel the Buderus is a superior piece of equipment in terms of durability. A good boiler should last 40 years or more prior to failure.

 

Grady, can you elaborate on the plate heat exchanger failures? If the areas you mention are problem spots has EK upgraded any of these components to reduce failures? Any idea how a Buderus with the logamatic controls compares to the EK-1 System 2000 in terms of oil used? How about a Buderus with the Beckett Heat Smart rather than the logamatic? I know this is a lot of questions but I have been given estimates on all 3 systems and I am trying to decide which way to go.

Thanks.

 

I see several plate heat exchangers which are leaking between the plates & several more which are almost completely plugged. In all fairness, the water here is bad.
If you do end up with a System 2000, I would certainly look at a different kind of domestic hot water system. As far as I know, they still use the plate heat exchange as their standard means of making domestic hot water but I do believe they offer alternatives.

I believe a Buderus would outlast a System 2000 close to 2 to 1. I cannot speak about the fuel efficiency of the Buderus with either of the control systems you mention other than I think the Logomatic would outperform the Beckett due to it's being a true outdoor reset.

 

Can the EK-1 be used with a Superstor, thus avoiding that converted electric hot water type holding tank, along with the extra pump and flat-plate heat exchanger? Or, does EK-1 require using the recommended factory setup?

Pete

 

I believe Energy Kinetics is now offering Triangle Tube indirects as an option.

 

Grady, thanks for the input. I currently have a 21 year old Burnham RS-111 with tankless coil. I have replaced the coil twice in the last 21 years and it needs to be replaced again due to clogging. Do you think this indicates my water quality would cause problems with the System 2000 plate heat exchanger?

 

With your average of a domestic coil every 7 years, I would definately stay away from the plate heat exchanger. Buderus' has a "cleaning friendly" indirect. I have a Crown Mega-Stor in my house. To clean the coil in it, you need only to drain the tank, open a clean out hatch on top, & use a garden hose to wash the exterior of the coil. This tank & others is/are all stainless.

 

Thanks for the input. I have 2 companies giving me estimates on a Buderus G115/28 with a Superstore indirect. One included the logamatic as an option for about $850. The other is going to provide the logamatic as an option and a Beckett Heat Smart as a lower cost alternative. I don't have this estimate yet so don't know the price. A third company is bidding the System 2000 with the EK indirect, and a lower cost option that is a Weil-Mclean with a Superstore indirect. The fourth is bidding a TRIO Purepro P3 with a Pipe N' Go indirect also by Purepro. I can't seem to find many opinions on the Purepro. It is apparently a re-labeled Euro boiler. Its a 3-pass low mass cast iron. They resell the Beckett Heat Smart with their name on it. Any opinions on this boiler? So far its the lowest cost.

 

I'd be curious to know what rebranded Euro boiler it is. It doesn't match my Biasi, and it looks different from some of the ones I checked on the web: Pensotti, Slant Fin, etc.

Make sure your contractor checks and confirms that your existing flue will handle the lower temperature flue gases from a triple-pass boiler. You may need a stainless steel liner, and it will add to the cost.

Pete

 

Thanks Pete. I have a central chimney which I thought I read somewhere means there is a steel insert typically. Is this true? I have been on the roof and looked into it but its been a while and I don't remember what it looks like.

I think the Trio Purepro may be a rebranded Solaia boiler. Still not sure where they are made and how good they are.

 

Personally, I'd stay away from the Weil-McLain. The sections are put together with "elastomeric seals" aka rubber O-rings.
I have never before heard of the PurePro.
Presuming the SuperStor to be the ultra, how does one clean the exterior of the heat exchanger coil? With your water, this would be a major concern to me.

 

Solaia: google brings up a lot of hits, including some discussions in a few professional forums. One site mentioned it was a reworked Biasi casting?

Regarding the flue, that is something you'd need to ask your contractor about. I have a Biasi, and the flue temps are marginal for my terra cotta liner.

Pete

 

Amtrol uses the same coiled fin tubing for the exchanger. Two methods for cleaning are "shocking the coil" (drain the DHW water, run very hot boiler water through the coil to dry and flake the deposits) and also the use of ice machine cleaner (phosphoric acid.) A pain in the butt that I hope I never need to do on mine
Pete

 

Now I remember where I've seen that heat exchanger design. A few years ago I had a salesman call on me & bring a Solaia with him. He said it was a re-labed Biasi. As a Solaia, it comes/came with a thermostatic by-pass as standard equipment. The only reason we never installed one is the nearest distributor was too far away.

The shock cleaning method RC mentioned is the same as Buderus'.