bleeding H/W Baseboard Radiators


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Old 10-03-06, 01:24 PM
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bleeding H/W Baseboard Radiators

Hello all..
I have a hot water heating system, two floors,
seperate thermostats for each zone upstars and down.

All was well untill I installed new baseboard in an upstairs bath
replacing an old one. now I have no heat upstairs and I assume
Its air locked.

There are no bleeders on the baseboards...
Can I just install a 1/4" tap valve (like on an icemaker) to the 3/4"
copper return pipe at this new radiator?

The boiler is putting out the same pressure as before about 22#
however the temp is about 20 degrees cooler from 180 to 160.

Thanks for any and all help with this matter.
slim
 
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Old 10-03-06, 05:21 PM
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Air in system

First let me say the pressure is probably too high but until you get the system free of air, don't worry about it. With a 2 story house, 15# is usually ample.

Do you have a separate circulator for each zone or zone valves for each zone?
 
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Old 10-03-06, 05:51 PM
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yes you are right it was about 14 -16# before sorry for the mistype earlier...

zone valves, one circ pump
Thanks for the reply
 
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Old 10-03-06, 06:08 PM
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Air in system

Presuming the circulator is on the return piping (goes into the boiler at or near the bottom), there should be a manual shut off valve above the circulator & another valve with a hose connection. Make sure only the zone with which you are having trouble is calling for heat. Close the manual shut off valve & attach a hose into a bucket to the hose connection (washing machine hose works well). Open the hose valve & purge until you no longer get air. Close the hose valve & open the shut off valve. Post back with results.
 
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Old 10-03-06, 07:17 PM
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the circ pump in tword the bottom of the boiler.
there are no valves on either supply or return
what I am assuming is the supply has an 1 1/2 pipe going to an
air eliminator ( a strainer looking thing with a expansion tank on the bottom and a brass round can with what looks like a small ball berring on top) then thru the floor and branching out to many
many pipes and zone valves... its a snake pit in the crawl space..
the other pipe that has the circ pump goes through the floor
thru a wall and god knows where....

I went ahead and used the saddle valve at the top floor bath baseboard
there was a large amount of air after a while she started to heat up nicely..
The pressure went to around 14#
but the boiler water temp never got up past 145 or so... it is around 86 degrees here....

I hope I didnt screw up with the saddle valve...
let me know

Many thanks
Slim
 
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Old 10-03-06, 07:55 PM
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heres a pic
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/vbslim/100_0332.jpg

a link to all the boiler pics... such as they are

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/vbslim/
 
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Old 10-03-06, 08:02 PM
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Saddle valve

I've had to use one once myself. Just be sure to keep an eye on it for leaks. People who install systems like that should have to work on them for the rest of their days as punishment. That's why I believe all installers should start as service people.

Let's wait for a slightly cooler day before you give it a good long, hard run. At 86 you don't want to heat the house much.

BTW, the cap, if there is one, on the little brass can, should be left loose so air can escape. Obviously if it leaks water it should be replaced.
 
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Old 10-03-06, 08:10 PM
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many thanks grady!

Yep I agree, and design engineers should at least apprentence in their chosen
field

When I ran the new pipes for the baseboard I left em a little long
so I will be able to unsweat the ninety cut out the part with the lil hole and resolder iffn it does decide to leak...

Do you know of an online source for inline air eliminater
valves for 3/4 I could solder in place of the tap??

Thanks again
Slim
 

Last edited by vbslim; 10-03-06 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 10-03-06, 08:32 PM
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Air Eliminator

You could use one of these:
http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/100-7.2_AirScoopSht.pdf

The smallest they come is 1" but you could use 1" pipe thread by 3/4" sweat male adaptors or 1" by 3/4" brass bushings but the former would be a lot cheaper. You would also need an automatic air vent for the top & a 1/2" pipe plug for the bottom.
 
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Old 10-04-06, 04:09 AM
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Thanks Grady...
I cant seenm to find the small baseboard air valves
so I will go with your suggestion.. i'm going with the taco
1 1/2" air scoop and a hy-vent.. I'll also replace the expansion tank while I'm at it..
Thanks for your help!
Slim
 
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Old 10-04-06, 05:54 PM
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Small basboard air bleeders

We usually don't put automatic air vents on baseboard. Normally the manual bleeders are what is used. Any plumbing supply house & many HVAC supply houses have them. They are 1/8" pipe thread & use either a screwdriver or a radiator key to open them.
 
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Old 10-04-06, 06:41 PM
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Grady,
I'm gonna put the taco stuff at the boiler
I'll check the local hvac supply houses here for the individual
hand bleeders for the baseboard

Thanks again
for the help
slim
 
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Old 10-04-06, 07:13 PM
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Slim

Glad to be of service. If you have any other questions we are here & will offer advise to the best of our ability.
 
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Old 10-23-08, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
We usually don't put automatic air vents on baseboard. Normally the manual bleeders are what is used. Any plumbing supply house & many HVAC supply houses have them. They are 1/8" pipe thread & use either a screwdriver or a radiator key to open them.

May I ask why auto air vents aren't usually put on baseboards? I know they might be unsightly, but I have an apartment unit that I need to purge and I figure the auto vent should keep the air out without me having to keep running into the apartment unit. Is there an advantage to the manual bleed?

Thanks!
 
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Old 10-23-08, 09:45 AM
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Auto Vents

The reason auto vents are not normally used on baseboard is they would be out of sight under the cover & all auto vents tend to leak sooner or later.
It's one thing to have a leak onto a cement or dirt basement floor. Having a leak onto a wooden floor, especially one with a finished ceiling below, is a whole different story.
 
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Old 01-19-11, 07:24 AM
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Question Question for Grady: re: "brass can" (air separator)

Hi Grady,

I'm new to this forum and I realize this is a very old thread, but I came across it in trying to troubleshoot our baseboard water system. We had a new heating system installed a year and a half ago (Peerless Purefire) and with it a Caleffi DISCAL air separator, which is what I think you and VBSlim are referring to when you talk about the "brass can", right? The first year, we had no problems at all, but this heating season, we seem to be having problems with air in the system (which is frequently causing the hot water to stop flowing and the radiators not to heat up). My question is this: you mention in one of your responses that the cap on the top of the can should be loose to allow the air to vent, which makes sense to me. Is that the screw on the top of the can you are talking about? If so, I went downstairs to check ours and it was screwed down tight. I emailed my husband about this and he said when the guy installed it, he had hand tightened it down. He thought that was kind of strange, but thought there must be another way for the air to vent.

What it sounds like, if I'm understanding you right, our vent has been closed and now the air has built up enough that it is causing us problems. It sounds as though loosening the screw on top will allow that air to release and eventually vent it all out.

This is a very old house and so the pipes have already had release valves installed in them but I'd rather not have to go through all that if I don't have to (which is what we used to do with our old system).

The other part of my question is this: if I'm understanding correctly and should loosen that screw, how far should it be loosened? Will it automatically stop when it is fully open? I've been looking at the diagrams of the separator and it looks as though the screw is attached to a float. I don't want to loosen it so much that it comes out of the float.

Thank you for any feedback.

Ladybard
 
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Old 01-19-11, 09:00 AM
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Grady, I think I answered my own question. I was able to find installation instructions for the same type of mechanism from a different company and it said to turn the cap one full turn open.
I was also able to get a closer look at it (I'm short) and I see what you mean by a cap. It really isn't a screw and doesn't affect the float inside in terms of connecting to it.

Thanks anyway. If you have any suggestions or tips that you think I should still know about, I'd be happy to learn about them.

Ladybard
 
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Old 01-19-11, 10:03 AM
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Lady, while yer down there foolin' with the boiler, take a look and see if you can find the temperature and pressure gauge... Tell us both readings...
 
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Old 01-19-11, 05:28 PM
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Ladybard,
Good job. Sounds like you have found your answer. As Trooper's asked, can you tell us the temperature & pressure (both cold & at full operating temp would be great).
 
 

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