Cost of Boiler and Installation


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Old 10-31-06, 12:19 AM
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Unhappy Cost of Boiler and Installation

I live in upstate Ny about where there are twice as many cows as there are people.
I purchased this house 3 yrs ago, I cannot determine the name of the boiler as it has worn off
I have a boiler that is approx. 35-40 yrs old and was only used for 5 months out of the year during this time. It has to go!!
I really do not have a lot of choice as far as heating contractors go. There is one Oil co. in town and they have been pretty good for service, but the gentleman who did all their service work has gone out on his own and now the Oil co. uses him for all their installations. Plus whatever he has.
I had him over this AM and we talked pretty much in general terms as to type of boiler (Bruderus 115 series) and water tank 41 gallon Purepro ( amtrol) made for FW Webb. At least that what he recommended along with a Peerless.
He stated that one way, of many ways, to determine BTU requirements was to measure existing baseboards and for every foot would need @550 Btu's? Is this correct?? I know you need to determine square and cubic room footage and window, door measurements to get a better gauge of what one needs, plus R values etc.
He said he would have to rip out everything that is existing I do not have a problem with that as everything is antiquated, expansion tank, piping etc. and needs to go.
He estimated that it would take 8-10 hours to rip out and replace with new and cost approx. $5000-6000, I think my jaw dropped.
I am sort of at his mercy because of where we are.
What I am asking is is this out of line?? or what.
I know I can buy a Buderus for approx $2500 plus shipping and installation....no I did not ask him his hourly rate.

I would appreciate any input at all.

Thanks,

Mark

PS almost forgot I will have 5 zones
 
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Old 10-31-06, 04:13 AM
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price

For that number of zones, and for EVERYTHING being replaced (Zone valves/circs, valves, exp. tank) etc. the price is range is reasonable for what a professional would charge. If the guy is running a business to make a living, the markups have to be large. It ain't cheap. The Buderus is a top line boiler. I'm wondering why he isn't using the matching DHW indirect tank with it?
 

Last edited by radioconnection; 11-11-06 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 10-31-06, 10:18 AM
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I received estimate today and is actually for 4 zones not 5 and includes:
Buderus 115-34 Boiler and water tank with Reillo Burner
4 zone relays
4 circulators
new flue pipe 5 inch
new oil line from tank to boiler approx 15 feet
circulator shutoff flanges
spirovent (??)
all electrical inc shutoff switch and firomatic disconnect (?)
Installing ball valve on basement garage zone
All disposal fees and labor
$5865.00

Does not include fuel tanks as they have been inside in basement and seem to be in good condition

Mark
 
  #4  
Old 10-31-06, 10:50 AM
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A proper heat loss calculation is everything. Once you have that, one way to check is indeed to do the (feet of baseboard element * 550) math trick. That plus experience in the house can tell you whether the house or particular rooms are over- or under-radiated.

Example: my house has a heat loss at 5F outdoor design of 50k BTU/hr. I have 106 ft of baseboard. (106*550) = 58.3k BTU/hr output. So my house is slightly (~15%) over-radiated. No biggie.

I'm of two minds about this: one, it is better to size the boiler by the heat loss, not necessarily the radiation. You might end up having to go up a size in boiler and not really need it. That's wasted fuel for the rest of the boiler's life. Plus any day it's *not* the design temp outside (99.6% of the heating season -- we're talking hours here, not days...), the boiler is already bigger than you need anyway. Two, it could be argued that if it ever gets really really really cold, then you will need the extra boiler output and need every bit of the radiation to stay warm. The odds of that happening are fairly small, and how long would it last, anyway? Four days every 5 years? Fire up the wood stove, plug in a space heater, snuggle up with a cow, and the problem is solved.

Anyway, do or get a heat loss done. www.slantfin.com/he2/ is a free program that does the calculation by the book. Size the boiler off that. There is a lot of cushion built into heat loss calculations, radiation output, etc.

Buderus is a very good boiler. Get the Buderus indirect tank. What he proposes (Amtrol), IMHO, is cheap.

Absolutely get the Logamatic 2107 outdoor reset control package. It will pay for itself in the first heating season.

Radioconnection is spot on about everything as well. Especially about the venting and the oil tank. The last thing you want is to be declared a superfund site if an old tank goes. That runs some big big bucks.

You should get familiar with the installation manual of the Buderus, and ask him for pictures of recent installations. They should look pretty much like the install manual.

If this is five zones and you're getting all new circulators (or zone valves, near-boiler piping, etc. etc.) then the price is probably not out of line and I'd be surprised if the whole thing got done in one day. If he's the only guy in the area, and he's not a hack, then you're going to be married to him for everything. Don't cheap out on him now and chances are you will have a long and peaceful relationship.

Do it once, do it right. It will cost more up front, but it's worth it. I should know: I did it wrong the first time three years ago and just paid a bunch to get it right. No fun.
 
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Old 10-31-06, 11:02 AM
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Spirovent is the air elimination system.

Sitting here in coastal New England where everything costs a fortune, I'd leap at the price if the quality of work is good.

Sounds like the garage zone is a "go down to the basement and open the valve, close it when you're done." Can't comment on that. Should work.

Ask him about the Buderus indirect instead of the Amtrol.

And ask about the Logamatic 2107. You really should get that.

Do a heat loss. Or at least measure your baseboards and do the guestimate math trick. The 115/34 is a sizable boiler. IBR output 104 mbh. A real heat loss calc might tell you to go with the 115/28. There's a tremendous tendency to oversize boilers. Fear of cold! I say fear not.
 
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Old 11-02-06, 09:29 AM
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Wink xiphias

Xiphias,
My wife read your post and is wondering why you called her a cow?!? ;-)
Anyway how do you determine or find degree days? for my area. Albany would be the closest city. as asked for by the slantfin download??
Coastel NE..I grew up on Cape Cod, there is nothing that can beat coastel NE except maybe the Oregon, N California coast.
Thanking you in advance

Mark_ms
 

Last edited by Mark_MS; 11-02-06 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 11-02-06, 11:11 AM
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design temps

NEW YORK
Albany 0°
Auburn 2°
Binghamton 1°
Buffalo 6°
Glens Falls -5°
Kingston 2°
Massena -8°
New York City 15°
Oneonta -4°
Oswego 7°
Plattsburg -8°
Rochester 5°
Rome -5°
Schenectady 1°
Suffolk County 10°
Syracuse 2°
Utica -6°
Watertown -6°
 
  #8  
Old 11-02-06, 02:45 PM
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This is so simple to calculate!

Drive to the contractors home, see if he drives a car worth more than $50,000, if he doesn't than he is not making too much money!
 
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Old 11-02-06, 04:27 PM
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I think it's very good price, at least for NJ.

I roughly estimated some prices for you for some basic stuff if you would buy it all over the counter. no labor cost.

[QUOTE=Mark_MS]I received estimate today and is actually for 4 zones not 5 and includes:
Buderus 115-34 Boiler and water tank with Reillo Burner
$2500
4 zone relays
~$150
4 circulators
$400
new flue pipe 5 inch
~$100
new oil line from tank to boiler approx 15 feet
~$20
circulator shutoff flanges
$150
spirovent (??)
$80
all electrical inc shutoff switch and firomatic disconnect (LWCO, firomatic, MC cable, boxes conduit etc)
$250

exp.tank

$60

misc, valves
~$100

electronics
aquastat, etc (depends how fancy you go)

~$300 (not fancy)

copper

~$150 aprox. $40 for 1"x 10' tube




Installing ball valve on basement garage zone
All disposal fees and labor ?????

Maybe somebody can correct anything if I'm wrong
 

Last edited by zaq123; 11-02-06 at 06:55 PM.
  #10  
Old 11-06-06, 03:44 PM
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Living with cows isn't all bad...the boiler guy and myself came to a mutual agreement he said he would take my Harley in trade for the new boiler w/installation and materials and labor, even up.
The way i figure it with the money I save in oil costsI can put a nice deposit down on new Harley..we will see how that works.
Thanx all for your help

Mark_ms
 
  #11  
Old 11-07-06, 08:01 PM
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seems ok

I believe that the price is on the high side ,BUT I dont think it will be done that quickly . Also there is alot of money in the rest of the parts ( water feed ,backflow ,zone valves,etc.) The price of copper and brass has just about tripled in the past year and half.Last make shore to see some of his work .
 
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Old 11-07-06, 08:35 PM
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old-fashioned bartering is not dead!

Harley for a Buderus. Classic.

If the Harley is in good shape, see if he'll throw in the Logamatic 2107; that's where you will really start seeing the savings add up for the new bike.
 
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Old 11-10-06, 04:02 PM
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Smile

Well.....The Harley is gone (sniff)..Tech did installation yesterday with helper it took them 12 hours.
Piping looks good and neat, sorry no pics.
Turns out out my hot water storage tank, on stilts, which was wrapped in 6 inch insulation covered in duct tape was actually a galvanised water storage tank.
I was amazed at the fact on startup indirect water tank only took 15 minutes to come to temp @ 120. But it needs to be tweaked a bit higher but will do this over a few days.
New buderus looks great in blue, but wife was hoping for muave.
Thank you all for your help..this is a great forum!!

mark_ms
 
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Old 11-10-06, 06:03 PM
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Glad we could help. Start saving for the new bike. Maybe a custom mauve paint job for that?
 
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Old 11-11-06, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_MS
Well.....The Harley is gone (sniff)..Tech did installation yesterday with helper it took them 12 hours.
Piping looks good and neat, sorry no pics.
Turns out out my hot water storage tank, on stilts, which was wrapped in 6 inch insulation covered in duct tape was actually a galvanised water storage tank.
I was amazed at the fact on startup indirect water tank only took 15 minutes to come to temp @ 120. But it needs to be tweaked a bit higher but will do this over a few days.
New buderus looks great in blue, but wife was hoping for muave.
Thank you all for your help..this is a great forum!!

mark_ms
Did you get Logamatic 2107 or he installed 8148 aquastat.
Take some pics for us please. I'm in the process of adjusting the same boiler. I'm soooo want to see some pics how he piped it. Thanks in advance
 
 

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