Buderus?


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Old 11-22-06, 06:56 AM
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Buderus?

Looking to replace my very old boiler and hot water heater( both oil) with a boiler with indirect hot water. The PO biult a new house and installed a Buderus and loves it. Seems like a nice set up and would be great for my house. I found this on ebay and the guy is 20 mins away ( http://cgi.ebay.com/Buderus-G115-28Boiler-S-120-Water-Heater-Riello_W0QQitemZ140051349438QQihZ004QQcategoryZ41987QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem ). How is this price? Any other thoughts or tips.
Thanks Ed
 
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Old 11-22-06, 10:04 AM
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WTF,
this guy used my pic of S-120 for his listing
 
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Old 11-22-06, 10:13 AM
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I saw that. Sounds kinda shady now.
 
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Old 11-22-06, 10:39 AM
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Now THAT'S funny. zaq, you're famous. Copyright the pic and tell him there's a fee to use it.

hnh, it's a good boiler and indirect. Find a good pro who installs that equipment properly and will size it properly based on your building's heat loss. Chances are, that person is not to be found on ebay.
 
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Old 11-22-06, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by xiphias
Now THAT'S funny. zaq, you're famous. Copyright the pic and tell him there's a fee to use it.

hnh, it's a good boiler and indirect. Find a good pro who installs that equipment properly and will size it properly based on your building's heat loss. Chances are, that person is not to be found on ebay.
LOL, I guess part of my basement is famous now.
I don't care if he uses it. Too bad you can't see much except blurry images of S-120 and that yellow brake fluid can up there.

PS. Hnhracing, if you are really interested and think you can do DIY install, email him and check what he has. You said it's only 20 min away, right?
Based on his other listings, it looks like he installs them as well
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pensotti-Blueline-Bl-3-Boiler-w-Riello-Oil-Burner_W0QQitemZ140048251484QQihZ004QQcategoryZ41987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
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Old 11-22-06, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by zaq123
...I don't care if he uses it...
I take back what I sed previously.

I found the guy to be honest, open, and forthright in
my emails to him. I don't think I'd hesitate to do biz
with him if I was in the market for a boiler... watch
his ads for a slight change in wording.

I dunno about the price though, haven't shopped
prices myself yet.

C/YA!
 

Last edited by NJT; 11-22-06 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 11-27-06, 06:15 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. E-mailed him about the price of the Logamatic, he said $750. So thats about $2900 for the G115, S120 and the controller. Still sound like a decent price?
I downloaded the slatfin heat loss cal and did one at Crown boiler web site. Both give me a 30k BTU. Is the G115/21 going to be way to big? Could my cal be wrong, if seems pretty straight forward. I know you can't do one from this but tell me if it sounds about right: 902sq of 2x6 ext walls, R19 floors and ceilings, 95ft ext wall, over crawlspace. 520 sq of 2x4 ext walls, R19 floors and ceilings, 69 ft ext wall, over 7' basement.
Have a guy coming for an estimate in two weeks, but really would like to get the Buderus and do it myself and have it checked at startup.
Thanks again Ed
 
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Old 11-27-06, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by hnhracing
Both give me a 30k BTU. ...Could my cal be wrong, if seems pretty straight forward. I know you can't do one from this but tell me if it sounds about right: 902sq of 2x6 ext walls, R19 floors and ceilings, 95ft ext wall, over crawlspace. 520 sq of 2x4 ext walls, R19 floors and ceilings, 69 ft ext wall, over 7' basement.
No doors or windows ? They are a significant loss element usually. 30K sounds chilly to me... I could probably heat half my downstairs with that.

I got the CD from Slant-Fin yestiddy, but it won't run on my XP machine. Gonna try it in another machine...
 
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Old 11-27-06, 06:34 PM
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price

His prices seem to be reasonable. Don't forget you will be losing the factorywarranty doing the install, regardless of who sets up the burner. All the manufacturers are very strict about that point. You might want to see if you can "work something out" with him regarding warranty issues. Most supply houses will ding you full retail plus, IF they will even talk to you, when you try and buy from them. I bought my Biasi from a guy in Maine for about the same price he advertises his for...

Pete
 
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Old 11-28-06, 05:23 AM
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hnh: what is your outdoor design temp? Agree that 30k might be on the low side, but that's very dependent on the ODT (e.g., are you in South Carolina or Maine?). If it is 30k, that works out to about 21 BTU/hr per sq ft, which is in the ballgame for standard construction from ~1960s/70s forward. (That's definitely NOT a great way to figure things, but it is one check.) R19 ceilings are, for cold climates anyway, underinsulated. In New England, for example, you'd want at least R30-38 and preferably R49 or so. DOE/EnergyStar and even Owens-Corning have zip code-based insulation recommendations on their sites. That's beside the point, though.

Another check (which again is not great, but it is a check...) is to compare the boiler size to the existing possible radiation output. e.g., if you have standard fin-tube baseboard, figure 550 BTU/hr per ft of element at 180F supply temp. 550 * element(ft) = max output in BTU/hr. This of course assumes the house is adequately radiated and you're happy with it.

The "right" way, naturally, is as good a heat loss calc as you can do. Slantfin does a strict Manual J and is often used.

Anyway, if you're at 30k, then yes, the G115/21 is double oversized. But if you are using it to run an indirect, then you need that capacity to achieve decent recovery. The way you mitigate the oversizing is the Logamatic reset control, which will run the space heating at the coolest possible water temp to supply the space heating demand while still protecting the boiler. IMHO, the control is what makes it in this setup and is very much worth the money. From what I've read, the overall design, sizing, etc. of these boilers are basically done with this control in mind. It will probably pay for itself in <4 yrs, maybe much less depending on fuel costs.

Only other thing I'd add is a Sparco/Honeywell tempering valve on the domestic hot water. Run the tank at ~150F and temper to 120 or so at the taps.

On the price, I don't know enough to offer an opinion. If you really want to size to the heat loss, consider a modulating/condensing boiler. Which is a whole 'nother discussion.....

NJTrooper: I can run the slantfin stuff on my XP (SP2) machine. It's a bit quirky but doesn't crash. Has an annoying habit of messing with input values sometimes, so you have to watch it carefully. And it won't export the files for use on another machine, and the "reports" don't format right but I don't use them anyway. I just take screenshots of the loss calc pages and print them.
 
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Old 11-28-06, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by xiphias
I can run the slantfin stuff on my XP (SP2) machine. It's a bit quirky but doesn't crash. Has an annoying habit of messing with input values sometimes, so you have to watch it carefully. And it won't export the files for use on another machine, and the "reports" don't format right but I don't use them anyway. I just take screenshots of the loss calc pages and print them.
Only reason it wouldn't run is because I'm a bonehead.

When that splash screen comes up at the beginning of the program, you need to click that X in the upper right corner ... I didn't see that X until I loaded the program on my 98 machine. Then I went back and tried it again on the XP system. Works about the same on both... quirky ... I did run into it changing some values too. I haven't printed anything yet. All in all, it seems like an easy program to use. In two hours or so I had the heatloss done for my 2 story 1700 sq ft house. I was surprised at the results... I got 68KBTU for mine. A big portion of that is the sun porch which is large, with LOTS of glass. My boiler is more than twice those BTU's ... and I've got more radiation than the program tells me, but it still feels chilly.

So, maybe 30K is right for hnh's place!
 
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Old 11-29-06, 06:28 AM
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Xiphias- Thanks for all the input. I'm out on Long Island and the ODT is 10*. I'm adding an extension to my house, thats why part of my cal is over a crawl and the soon to be is over a basement. The existing house built in 83', has R19 ceiling and floor so thats what I used for the cal on the extension. When the extension is done it will be a higher R.
NJ- I did figure in windows and doors in my cal. Nothing to big or too many, and I didn't think anyone would do a true cal for me so I didn't put it in my post.
Radio- Good reminder about the warranty, I'll have to see if I can work something out.
Thanks guys
ED
 
 

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