Taco Circ. Pump Leaking: Need Advice

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Old 02-21-07, 09:07 PM
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Taco Circ. Pump Leaking: Need Advice

Hey Everyone,

My Taco 110B Red Baron circulating pump (1/12 HP model) started leaking and it's getting worse every few days. It's leaking right where the seal is where you add drops of oil.

My first inclination is to order a seal kit (part # 110-275RP) to try to fix my problem but I wanted to ask if you all have had success with them of if I should be checking for something different first before ordering the seal kit.

A new pump is like $400 so I REALLY want to avoid doing that!

Any advice is welcome! Thanks in advance. -Tony
 
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Old 02-21-07, 09:47 PM
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Tony,
I'd replace the pump with a Taco 007 wet-rotor pump. Maintenance free & only $60-$70 bucks.
 
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Old 02-22-07, 11:14 AM
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Is this on a heating system or a domestic water recirculation system? The 110B is a bronze pump and that explains the high cost. If you are using this on a heating system there is no need for a bronze pump.

I strongly recommend AGAINST trying to repair this pump with a new seal. My experience with this type of pump is that replacing the seal rarely works.

If this is a heating system I recommend a canned/unit/sealed pump as Andrew recommends.
 
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Old 02-22-07, 12:13 PM
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Thanks for the 2 replies,

It's for my boiler that heats the house and my hot water ties into it as well thru a coil.

Replacing the pump looks easy but I have three concers:

#1) Is the 007 as powerful as the one I have (the 110)? The 007 says it does 20 Gallons per minute but the 110 does 34 GPM.

#2) The 007 lists a head range of 11 feet but the 110 has 5-22 feet; what's head range?

#2) The HP on my 110 is 1/12th but it's 1/25th on the 007; will that still work (I have 3 zones)?

So is bronze only needed if you are circulating water that's drinkable? Mine is just circulating the water for baseboard heaters and the fresh water goes thru a coil and never mixes with the circulating water.

Thanks!
 

Last edited by tony17112acst; 02-22-07 at 12:30 PM.
  #5  
Old 02-22-07, 12:53 PM
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The bronze pump is only necessary for domestic (drinking quality) water.

The 110B is most likely more pump than necessary but was originally installed because it was handy and easily available. Unless your system is so large as to be crowding the upper limits of the 110B the 007 will work just fine.

Head range is the upper limit of the ability of the pump to actually pump water. Again, unless you have a large system the original pump was most likely far more than needed.
 
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Old 02-22-07, 02:14 PM
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Tony, what kind of piping do you have in your system?

Furd, bronze (or SS) circs are required whenever oxygen is present in the water. This could be for systems with open tanks, uncoated PEX, piping off a steam boiler, etc.
 
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Old 02-22-07, 03:57 PM
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If you do scrap out that old pump, might wanna see if you can get a few bucks at the scrapyard for the bronze...
 
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Old 02-22-07, 05:03 PM
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Thanks guys. I have all copper piping. The house is 30 years old. I thought I read somwhere that bronze was used when the quality of the water is more hard ....and my water was very hard. When I bought the place 4 years ago, the water was super hard, so I installed a softner. The heating system is probably 30 years old too.

The pump has a sticker on it that says "Remanufactured by Sid Harvey's." So the original may have went bad and this was put in later perhaps.

I found a local place that has the Taco 007 pump for $67, I may pick it up tomorrow and then I"ll check this forum for any other feedback and will install on Saturday.

Thanks everyone! -Tony
 
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Old 02-22-07, 05:36 PM
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This is interesting. If someone put the cheap pump in when the bronze one SHOULD have been put in, is this just a life- of- the- pump issue?... or are there other issues?
 
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Old 02-22-07, 06:13 PM
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Tony---Heads up

A Taco 007 is not a direct replacement for the 110. The distance between the flanges of the 110 is greater than that of the 007. You will need to cut the copper & splice in a piece to close the gap. If you don't want to get into all of this, I suggest you go to Sid Harvey & get a bearing assembly for your circulator.
 
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Old 02-22-07, 07:23 PM
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OK, this is getting interesting.

I thought the distance was the same for the 007 and the 100 so I double checked just now and I THINK they ARE the same distance.

This PDF: http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/Sht007.pdf
says 6 3/8 inches for the 007;

and this PDF:http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/110-120.pdf
says 6 5/16 inches (there's a misprint: it says "5/16" but should say 6 5/16"; you can check the millimeters and it works out)

So I was just assuming my copper piping would "give" that little extra difference.

If it DOES fit, then does anyone think I SHOULDN'T put in the 007?

THANKS GUYS!!
 

Last edited by tony17112acst; 02-24-07 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 02-22-07, 08:28 PM
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Talking Grundfoss

You could put in a UPS15-58 and hedge all bets.

Pete
 
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Old 02-23-07, 07:12 AM
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Well, the UPS15-58 only does 17 GPM whereas my Taco 110 does 34 GPM and the UPS15-58 is 1/25 HP and the Taco is 1/12 HP.

So that model wouldn't cover my concerns, or hedge all bets.

I don't want to spend $270 on a new pump (the taco 110) since the seal is just leaking either.
 
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Old 02-23-07, 07:57 AM
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Tony, is your pump sized properly? Is this being used for a residence? What kind of a boiler? What kind of piping arrangement, zoning emitters and pipe sizes are we talking about?

BTW, there are no real benefits to overpumping a system.
 
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Old 02-23-07, 09:49 AM
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Tony, as Who says, there are no benefits to overpumping. Taken to the extreme, it can actually damage your system.

More importantly, do not judge a pump by the total gpm it can do. To properly size a pump, you need to first calculate the resistance to flow in your piping. Then compare the resistance to your target flow rate, which is in large part dependent on the diameter of the pipes serving the heat emitters (baseboard, radiators, whatever).

If this is a small residential system, then you can be about 95% confident that a Taco 007 will do just fine.

Just for grins, I plotted up the 110 pump curve vs. a bunch of the 00 series pumps. Assuming you've got 3/4" copper piping around the house, then a 005 or 007 would be fine. To my way of thinking, the 005 would be preferable because it more closely matches the flatness of the 110 pump curve in the flow ranges you want.

Of course, you could also just get another 110....

All that said, I'm no expert, and I just did this in five minutes. But it's probably close.
 

Last edited by xiphias; 02-23-07 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 02-23-07, 02:25 PM
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Yes, it's for my home which is a 1-story 1250 square foot ranch with 2 zones on the main floor and 1 zone in the finished lower level (where the boiler is).

The boiler is a New Yorker S-114-AP (114,000 BTU) with 3 Taco 571-2 zone valves for each zone. All copper piping is 3/4" aside from the mains going directly in and out of the boiler.

I plumbed in the Lower level myself which probably has lower resitance than the original two zones and it used far less then the other two zones since it stays fairly warm down there from the heat of the boiler itslef.

I think I'll just go with the 007; after the last comment, I'm, feeling a little more confident. I wish I could just fix the 110 because the darn thing works well besides the leak. Oh well, life goes on. -Tony
 
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Old 02-23-07, 02:38 PM
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Tony, you should consider the Grundfos 15-58 and then you can choose a speed that works best. It's quieter than the 007 and the price diff is not that great.

I'm not sure what the amp draw is on the 110, but these small guys would probably pay themselves off in electrical savings in 2 seasons.
 
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Old 02-23-07, 03:28 PM
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Taco recently revised the design of the 007, and the pump curve is now a LOT flatter, and longer... I think they did that cuz lotsa ppl were going to the 15-58 . The new curve is very competitive ...
 
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Old 02-24-07, 08:11 AM
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pump

Originally Posted by tony17112acst View Post
Well, the UPS15-58 only does 17 GPM whereas my Taco 110 does 34 GPM and the UPS15-58 is 1/25 HP and the Taco is 1/12 HP.

So that model wouldn't cover my concerns, or hedge all bets.

I don't want to spend $270 on a new pump (the taco 110) since the seal is just leaking either.
Tony,

As others noted, the 110 may be way too much pump for your system. It almost sounds like someone used a pump that was on hand when it was installed. The UPS series have three speeds and they've be suggested for almost all residential and small commercial environments. Being a bronze pump ($$$) it might be worth trying to replace the bearings and see what happens. Just my opinion.

Pete

Pete
 
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Old 02-24-07, 08:11 AM
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The 15-58 is .75 AMP (on speed 3: what I need),
The 007 is .70 AMPS.

I just compared all 3 pumps' graph for GPM and head feet and surprisingly, the mighty 110 only does 14 GPM at 7 feet.

At 7 feet head:

Taco 110: 14 GPM
Taco 007: 13 GMP
Grundfos UPS15-58: 13 GPM

So after all the comments by you decent good folk and the fact that I have a 007 in hand now, I have decided on the 007.

BTW, Home Depot AND Lowes both have the 007 in stock ...hard to believe. I got mine for $65 at a local plumbing supply house; Lowes was $79 and HD was $83.

Wish me luck! Thank for all the comments, You guys have been VERY heplful!
 
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Old 02-25-07, 06:57 AM
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Smile

Mission accomplished: I had the old pump out and the 007 in in about 20 minutes but the electrical took me 30 minutes longer. The flexible conduit (?) was too short going from the 110 to the 007.

Thank you everyone for your much-needed comments. I did spend a little more but this decision will save me a lot of future hassles. The seal kit I was going to buy would have been $30 but I got a new pump for only $65. Plus it uses 1/3 of the electricity!!

Thanks again folks!

-Tony
 
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Old 02-25-07, 07:41 AM
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Good Job

Glad you got it fixed with minimal trouble. Was the 007 the same size (flange to flange) as the 110? If it was, I appologize for the incorrect info. Must have been a model other than the 110 I was thinking of.
 
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Old 02-25-07, 05:12 PM
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Yes, the difference according to the documentation is 1/16th of an inch and with copper, that didn't pose a problem.

Thanks again.
 
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Old 12-11-10, 11:27 AM
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Leaking Red Baron (Taco) recirc pump

I am having the leaking pump serviced on Mon., but when I turned the pump off, it started leaking worse -about 1 gallon per few hours. It actually slowed just a bit when I turned the pump back on. Any ideas on how to stop the leak in the meantime? The pump has a hot water input pipe from the hot water heater, but there doesn't appear to be any shut off valves. The only shut-off valve on that piece of pipe is for draining the hot water tank, so that is currently closed, but the leak continues. Hopefully, I won't have to completely drain the hot water heater to prevent water from leaking from the pump. Please help.
 
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Old 12-11-10, 11:52 AM
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NO shut off valve anywhere sounds extremely rare, but assuming it is true, I would turn your water off to the whole house, and install a compression ball valve on the water supply to the boiler. I say compression valve, because they are easily found at HOme Depot/Lowes and all you need is two wrenches to install it on your (supposed) copper pipe. You do need a clean cut on the copper pipe. You can do this within 30 minutes easily, if you really need to stop the leak till Monday.

If you are not sure what a compression fittes ball valve is, just ask someone and they will get it for you. Also tell them you need a small pipe cutter (they are not expensive) and ask them to show you how it works.

Also, KEEP looking for shut-off valves, one may be upstream more. The cheapest way to get by for 2 days (till Monday) is to shut your hot water heater's valve and then open it when you need to take a shower. But I wouldn't run the furnace without that hot water flowing into it; you'll get too much air and you'll lose heat.

-Tony
 
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Old 12-11-10, 12:05 PM
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I think we need to clarify something...

This forum is for HOME HEATING BOILER SYSTEMS... and right now I'm not sure if you are describing a pump that is moving water from your boiler to an indirect water heater...

OR

You did say RECIRC in your title... so you may in fact be talking about a pump that is moving DOMESTIC hot water around your POTABLE hot water system...

Please clarify.
 
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Old 12-11-10, 01:06 PM
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I would install two ball valves on each side of the circ for easy service in the future. If the water is going to be off and drained, might as well. That way when the service person comes on Monday, they won't need to shut the whole house off.
 
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