New Buderus GB142 What Indirect Water Tank?


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Old 11-03-07, 11:19 AM
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New Buderus GB142 What Indirect Water Tank?

Hey all pulled the trigger on a new Buderus GB142 I was supposed to get the ST150 with it and the contractor showed up with the S120 instead. He is telling me the only difference is 32 Gal to 40 Gal.

Looking at the Buderus website I cant tell if there is anything else that is different. They do look different as well.

Any input if it really matters much?

Thanks....
 
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Old 11-03-07, 12:19 PM
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An ST120 is small, and I'd be worried about duty cycles - it'll have that many more.

I peeked over at Buderus and could only find info on the St150 and larger. Maybe it has been discontinued so your contractor got HIMSELF a great deal on the smaller tank.

What does the contract say that you both agreed that he would put in?

Watch that the boiler gets vented properly... it requires a weird drain so the condensate goes from the vent back through that rather than back down through the heat exchanger.

Not my choice in stuff... a glass lined steel tank at stainless prices and an aluminum boiler that Buderus doesn't actually manufacture. Many pros in the field however really do like both products but I'll bet none of them would say that you should accept that ST120 tank.
 
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Old 11-03-07, 12:54 PM
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Thanks for the reply. The S120 is still listed on the Bederus site. I did find more information on the Bederus site forum for differences. This is what I found:

The S-120 is designed for applications where space is an issue. The S-120 has a 3/4" coil diameter versus 1" for the ST150, Has 1.5 inches of insulation versus 2" on the ST150, the ST150 offers a clean plate, larger magnesium rod and a recirculation port. The ST150 can use the optional electric anode rod.

The contractor did plead with me that he got a great package deal on the items but did order the ST150. Hum! He said he would do more work at my house but couldn't come down any more on the price for everything he is doing. More work could be carpentry, electrical or plumbing. He is installing the BB142/24, Indirect Water Tank (ST150 Original), had to install a wall to put it up; add condensation pump, electrical and under cabinet heater. Also taking a wall down between kitchen and dinning room to include header, sheet rock, move outlet, light switch and forced hot water wall register for $7400.

My house is a 3 bedroom salt box cape with 2 full baths. I upgraded to a 40 Gallon tank when my 30 died about 6 years ago. It is just me but I was concerned with resale and thought 40 gallon was best fit.

You are saying the 32 gallon will cycle on and off more often? It looks like the ST150 with 1" tube compared to 3/4" would heat much quick and possibly last longer as well.

I am also looking to install hard woods and looking to have the walls on the side of my stairway reduced to install a banister. So there is some negotiation to be done.

Oddly enough I had been looking at replacing my 1982 Repco Gas boiler 2 years ago and posted some questions here many really liked the GB142 compared to the other options out there so that is why I choose to go with the Buderous. Funny the inside of unit has many stickers from Kyung Dung Precision Co LTD ????? Not Buderus!!! What. So it is a German Boiler made in guessing Korea, Taiwan, China very disappointing.
 
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Old 11-03-07, 01:58 PM
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I haven't heard of any issues with the boiler... but do make sure the vent has the drain but I'd stand by my guns and insist on that ST150.

The 24 is an 80 MBH model and for it to flow all it's heat within given specs requires 1" piping.

Has he installed other GBs before? Does he have a combustion analyzer to test the flue emissions afterwards?
 
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Old 11-03-07, 03:35 PM
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Not liking the smell of this one. Hold him to the ST150 if that's what's on the contract. It's a better indirect than the 120.

Make sure the boiler is piped according to the directions.
 
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Old 11-03-07, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by xiphias
Not liking the smell of this one. Hold him to the ST150 if that's what's on the contract. It's a better indirect than the 120.

Make sure the boiler is piped according to the directions.
The installer has not install a Buderus before but has 14+ years experience. I have looked at the manual and don't see anything that stands out installation wise. It seems pretty straight forward but the mulitiple options for the IN + OUT air pipes are a bit confusing. Right no he is thinking run both lines then tie them together after 5 feet for one pipe going outside.

I agreed to take the 120 they could finish the install today and they left so will be back on Monday so I will insist on the 150 now. I was doing him a favor keeping the 120 so the guys could finish up today. Right now we have a wall up and the 142 hanging there that is it!
 
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Old 11-03-07, 06:57 PM
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Smells bad to me too

I hope, for your sake, my sniffer is out of whack on this one.

If you've given them enough $ to cover expenses & make a few bucks, don't look for them on Monday & don't hold your breath for the 150 tank.

Hope I'm wrong. Good Luck
 
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Old 11-04-07, 05:49 AM
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Thanks Grady... I am not sure the total cost for the 142 and 120 but I have only given them $2000. They are also doing quite a bit of work at my office. $40K+ so I am sure that wont be the case but when I agree to keep the 120 tank so they can finish up and they leave for the day I with I will try to get back on Sunday I am upset and will tell them to just get the 150.

Doing some more research I found the guideline for determining water tank size. FHR First Hour Recovery= Number of Bedrooms + 1 x 12= Tank Size

It is just me and the 32 would be big enough but if I use the formula I would need a 48 Gallon Tank. The family I bought the home from couple with one child would need a 36 gallon tank and that is why I went with 40 Gallon.

I need to call Buderus about the included Honeywell aguastat on the S120 that needs to bought serperately for the ST150. Not sure what this is used for or needed on the other tanks.

Thanks again all.....
 
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Old 11-04-07, 07:20 AM
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Davidmp

Good, at least you have an ace in the hole. Having heard countless horror stories, it's hard not to be gun shy. I don't know why they would include an aquastat on one tank but not another. Seems kind of strange but it could be a "residential" vs. "commercial" sort of thing. Maybe they figure anything over 40 gallons to be used primarily in a commercial application where the control rules are a lot different.
 
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Old 11-18-07, 09:36 AM
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consider this

I purchased a GB142/24 (80k btu) and had it installed recently. The difference between the 32 and 40 is partly gallons partly size and partly supplying enough ongoing hot water.

The significance of gallons is after the first hour or how fast the hot water is expended is the biggest consideration. If the demand from showers, appliances (Dish wshr, clothes wshr) and multiple showers or even hand washing using warm/hot water isn't considered, 40 or 32 may not be enough. So the real question to consider is "do you understand your hot water usage"?.
Once you can aswer multiple showers at the same time or one after the other even...you could then make an informed decision on the size of the water tank. Don't get stuck going to small or you'll be unhappy with the results. Yes, indirect can preheat with the boiler but the btu rating of the boiler affects the ability to replenish the hot water even in the event of the automatic cut off of the boiler to stop heating the house and instead heat the water first takes place.
If it sounds too confusing, its likely that no one has discussed this with you and hence haven't considered what you think is best based on your hot water needs.
At the end of the day, don't let someone sell you a HW indirect or other without having done this important homework.
Last but not least, I debated indirect vs tankless and I went with the tankless instead as I couldn't get the indirect gallons I needed without going 70+ gallons and I didn't want to take up all that space. I could have opted for a lager boiler to help with the preheating but the cost going higher btu and the gallon per minute increase to operate to justify the needs of my water usage made it obvious that route was simply more expensive and wastefull of the resource costs ongoing.

Lastly, indirect has a fed rebate of $300 to offset the cost of purchase/install. It never stores water, its incredibly small (considerably smaller than the GB ). Same rules apply RE: do you understand your hot water usage.

Its not rocket science but it does require consideration. Be glad to assist where I can as I went through this recently so I know I could have used the input for support...



Originally Posted by Davidmp
Hey all pulled the trigger on a new Buderus GB142 I was supposed to get the ST150 with it and the contractor showed up with the S120 instead. He is telling me the only difference is 32 Gal to 40 Gal.

Looking at the Buderus website I cant tell if there is anything else that is different. They do look different as well.

Any input if it really matters much?

Thanks....
 
 

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