baseboard heaters still noisy

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Old 11-06-07, 08:15 PM
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baseboard heaters still noisy

Please help!!
After bleeding the system 2 times I still hear the water (and my $) flowing through the baseboard radiators.
I have a Weil Mclain cgm series 9 boiler with 3 zones.
Last year I had to replace the circulating pump, pressure regulating valve and expansion tank. The system has never been the same since.
When I bleed the system I do one zone at a time with the valve above the pump is closed. After each zone has no more air bubbles I shut that valve and go to the next until all zones have run for at least 5 min without bubbles. With all three zones still closed I shut off the bleed valve and open everything back up, leaving the water in valve still open.
The only way to bleed the system is through the main bleed valve near the boiler. There is no bleeder valve on the baseboard units themselves.
There are no water leaks anywhere and water is never released from the pressure release valve. Pressure gages indicate everything is in check.
Immediately after bleeding the system in seems decent, but not near silent. After time I sense it is getting slightly worse but it might just be my frustration making me hear things.
Then only thing I am coming up with is I am not bleeding the system with the correct sequence or one of the air release valves that looks like a bicycle tube valve is faulty above the expansion tank. The particular valve seems suspect but I donít see how air would be able to go in that route.
I took pics but I canít figure out how to add them to this post.
If anyone has an idea please let me know and thank everyone for taking the time to read this.
 
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Old 11-06-07, 08:25 PM
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Go to www.photobucket.com and create a free account there. Upload your picture to that site, and provide a link here for us to click on and view them.
 
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Old 11-06-07, 11:27 PM
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adding pic link

Thanks for the advice here is the link to the photos of my boiler system.

http://s227.photobucket.com/albums/dd168/bennhamm/
 
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Old 11-07-07, 07:07 AM
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What size pump is that?

Are the pipes still noisy when all 3 zones are open at the same time?

Do you have a differential pressure valve?
 
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Old 11-07-07, 03:47 PM
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I will get back to you about the pump size after I get home. After reading a ton of other peoples problems here I guess I feel lucky to just have gurgeling going on. None the less I feel it is making my system much less efficent.
I read NJ Trooper explaining about the autovent connected to the air scoop above the expansion tank. In my original post that is what i was trying to explain as possibly being faulty because it appears water is very slowly coming out of it as evidnet by the photos. You can see a water mark on the side of the expansion tank. I also cant really screw the cap on the same brass autovent as if it is stripped.
I still dont see how air would come in that way while under pressure.
To answer your other questions Who, I always have all three zones open because there is there no thermostat activated valves. All manunal probably because all three zone are just for 1 apartment (900sqft) on the second floor. Should I try running it with different zone valves open and closed?
As far as a differential pressure valve. I dont think so. I think I have a pressure regulator with a fill bar on top of it. Is that the same thing??
 
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Old 11-07-07, 05:13 PM
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OK, when you say you have three zones, that's actually a 'mis-statement' . When we think of a 'zone' it's a heating zone controlled by it's own thermostat, and either an electric zone valve, or it's own circulator.

What you have is three heating 'loops' or 'circuits'. There's one thermostat that is centrally located, and it feeds heat to all three loops at the same time.

I have to ask this question... you said 'apartment' ... are you a renter ? If so, I need to caution you that this heating system isn't your property, you really shouldn't be working on it, and we really shouldn't be giving you advice to do so.

That said, the insulation on the pipes... if any of that is within 18" of the flue pipe, it should be removed. Most jurisditions require 18" clearance from the flue pipe to combustibles, and that insulation qualifies as a combustible.

I can't really trace the piping from your pics, but here is what I think I see.

The supply pipe comes up, to the air scoop with the expansion tank hanging on it, and the autovent on top. then there is a 'manifold' with three pipes exiting to the loops.

The three loops return to the boiler through the three valves on the return manifold, go down through a 'main' valve to the pump and back into the boiler.

What I can't see is where the water feed comes in... is it connected to the vertical supply pipe ahead of the air scoop ?

If I understand your system correctly, then your 'purging' procedure should work. You are forcing the water up, through each loop in turn and out the drain with the green hose on it.

Yes, if that autovent is constantly dripping, it should be replaced. There is another autovent on the top of the boiler also. Is the cap loose on that one ? If that one isn't leaking the cap should be loose to allow air to escape.

The air that you are hearing is being released from all that fresh water that you are always adding. When you heat that water, the entrained air is driven out of the water. You need to have functioning autovents to catch what's left without having to purge again, because after you add all that fresh water, you are also adding air. You want old nasty stale oxygen deficient water in that boiler.

So, ask your landlord to replace the non-functioning autovents and let the system run. While it is running and hot, you can close the red valves (but not the main one) to force water through one loop at a time at a greater velocity, and pull the air bubbles back to the boiler where they should be caught and expelled by the auto vents. Don't continually purge the system as you are, it's counter-productive.
 
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Old 11-07-07, 08:00 PM
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Thank you very much for the great advice. Just to clarify I live in a chicago 3 flat that I own but only live in one of the units so I often refer to it as an apartment.
While i am becoming very familiar with my system I made another misstatment.
I actually have a float type air vent made by American. I am assuming this is not the same as an autovent but serves the same purpose but maybe the one on my system is manual instead??
So should I replace it with an autovent or the same float vent that is currently ever so slightly dripping. With either choice do I have to drain the entire system??
I truely love this help forum and am greatly appreciative of the help the members provide, so thanks again for your help!!
 
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Old 11-07-07, 08:36 PM
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Auto-vent...float-vent ... same thing. There is a float inside that when the can fills with air, the float drops and opens the small valve letting the air out automatically. When the air goes out, the float goes back up and closes the valve again.

Before you begin, turn the boiler OFF, and allow to cool to under 100*F !!! Boiler water is hot enough to scald on contact ! Don't hurt yourself !

You shouldn't really have to drain if you can work fast. Drop the pressure in the boiler to near zero by draining some water. Have the new vent in one hand (or within easy reach) and unscrew the old vent with the other. Quickly screw the new one on. Yer gonna get wet, but it's not like yer gonna spray water under pressure all over the place either. Don't get water on any of the controls (electrical stuff). Make sure the new one has the same size threads as the old one, they come with 1/8" and 1/4" ... also, you can get male or female ...
 
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