New and Old boiler does NOT stay on!??!

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Old 11-07-07, 08:14 PM
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New and Old boiler does NOT stay on!??!

Hello.

I have a 2 family house, and i have 2 zone valves connected to 1 Enerjet boiler ( I cannot find the model - its yellow color, with blue Enerjet logo).

In the boiler room, there are 2 pipes coming from the ceiling, which one of them is for 1st floor, the other one goes to 2nd floor. (THey are labeled, and the master plumber also said its already seperated).

So, the master plumber bought a weil mclain Gold CGa boiler, which he saids the zone valve is build inside the boiler itself... so it does not use the standard rectangular shape zone valve anymore. So, i have a Enerjet boiler on the left, and a water heater in the middle, and then the new Weil Mclain boiler on the right hand side. THe water heater has a cold water pipe that feed into both boilers. So, after he installs everything, when we are testing, things are not working right... This is what happens..

For the old boiler (which is using for 2nd floor):
When we turn it to 75 degrees (when room temp is like 65), we will hear flames starting burning..etc.. but it only last for 4 minutes, then it shuts itself off... then it sits there doing nothing for another 14 minutes, and then flames started burning again for another 4 minutes..and then it repeats the cycle, 14 minutes of nothing, 4 minutes of firing, 14 minutes of nothing...etc... This is happening, REGARDLESS what temperature i turn on the 2nd floor's thermostat. First, the plumber said it is the thermostat... so he bought a new thermostat, (RiteTemp thermostat, can control both central AC and heat, but i only use it for heat - we connect the WHITE wire to RH, and BLACK to W - there are only 2 wires behind the thermostat inside), after he bought the thermostat, same thing... then he said its the zone valve, b/c he said when he push the lever on the existing zone valve, he said it is pumping (And I can hear water flowing when he push the zone valve lever to the left)... so, he bought the zone valve, installed it -- ha, same thing. it just do the 14minutes, 3 minutes, 14 minutes...etc... And on the 2nd floor, there are really very little heat coming up, its very very little... and the room temp on the 2nd floor remain 63 degrees...etc... And as of today, he still cannot find the solution, and he said he will bring someone over tomorrow to check it out.

Ok, for the new boiler for 1st floor:
Its a new boiler, and it has a PSI meter outside the boiler, it reads 90 PSI.. Basically, the thermostat seems fine. when I turn on the on/off switch, nothing happens... and then the room temp for 1st floor is like 62 degrees, once I turn the termostat to 63 degrees, it started to fire up, i can hear blames burning..etc.. And If i turn the thermostat to 60, the sound from the boiler stopped. However, if i leave the thermostat to like 70 degrees, the boiler will start firing... and it would run for 5 minutes, and then it would stopped... but I hear all these, buzzing noise once the flames is not burning... if i turn the thermostat to below the room temp, the buzzing noise would stop... and buzzing noise goes on, and then 15 minutes later, the flames would start for another 5 minutes, and then it would stop, buzzing noise again.... on the first floor, there are heat, but its very very minimal, the room temp stays at around 63 degrees....

The differences between 1st floor and 2nd floor is, the 1st floor's thermostat seems to be working as in controling the boiler, but it does not look like it is kicking in enough time to bring up the 1st floor room temperature... i can see that it is trying to do something, (due to the buzzing noise - b/c once i turn the thermostat below room temp, buzzing noise stops)... but on the 2nd floor, no buzzing noise, even if i turn the thermostat below or above the thermostat, it does not seem to control the boiler... but i belive the wiring for the thermostat, from 2nd floor to boiler room is correct and working, b/c initially, if i turn the thermostat to 50 degrees, below room temp, turning the on/off switch for that boiler does NOT do anything.. but if i turn it OFF, and then switch it to 70 degrees, and then turn it ON -- the flames start firing...

I kept on asking the plumber when is it going to be fixed, and he said he will get it done for me, guaranteed... and he said it is weird...blah blah

I am afraid that he might blame it on something else, and cost me more money. I know that before i started to seperate these boilers, 1st floor and 2nd floor is working fine...

Now, my question to all the experts, what seems to be wrong to the 1st floor boiler, and 2nd floor boiler!??!?!?

I have pictures of the setup, i will post in 10 minutes.

Thanks! Please help, this is bugging me!!

T

 
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Old 11-07-07, 08:24 PM
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Here are the pictures... 17 of them...








 
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Old 11-07-07, 08:30 PM
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Old 11-07-07, 08:33 PM
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last 5!









 
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Old 11-08-07, 12:53 PM
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anyone

Any experst out there can shed some light?

thx
 
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Old 11-08-07, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by takkie View Post
For the old boiler (which is using for 2nd floor):
When we turn it to 75 degrees (when room temp is like 65), we will hear flames starting burning..etc.. but it only last for 4 minutes, then it shuts itself off... then it sits there doing nothing for another 14 minutes, and then flames started burning again for another 4 minutes..and then it repeats
I think others are overwhelmed by the magnitude of your post. I'll start with the above snippet from your long post:

Is this boiler new enough vintage to be the kind that has a ventor (draft inducer),and is a condensing boiler, and has a pressure switch? If you have that kind, you can have a problem in the internal pressure (air drafting pressure, not water pressure) of the boiler that ends up tripping out the pressure switch due to say rust clogging things up inside or other reasons for improper venting. You can confirm this by either removing one of the vaccum lines from the pressure switch or otherwise bypassing. If say, you have that problem, do not bypass that switch permanently as the function is for safety, like to guard against CO gases! It means you are not getting the proper venting through the boiler. You need to get to the cause and fix it.

Another cause could be the aquastat limiting, and too rapidly. What does your temp gauge say, where it gives temp and pressure? What is the starting temp and what is the ending temp after the 4 minutes, when it ends up shutting off?
 
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Old 11-08-07, 05:19 PM
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Hello,

THanks for the reply. And sorry for the unorganized post. i am going to seperate the issue between 1st floor (new boiler) and 2nd floor (old boiler) and both apartment runs in baseboard heaters.

2nd Floor (Old boiler) - this boiler does NOT have pressure gauge, it has a air tank lookalike thing (like those tank to blow helium balloons), connected to a boiler.

The plumber came by today, and he some how fixed the 2nd floor thermostat controlling the boiler downstairs... right now, if i turn the 2nd floor thermostat over the room temperature, i can feel the heat. So the plumber told me to give it a shot, it should be fixed... However, I just tested it, I turn the heat up to 75 degrees, the boiler kicked in, and i can hear water flowing while i am inside the apartment. But the water sound is really really loud and the water sound does not stop. Its like, If i set the thermostat temp to 68, i will constantly hear water sound flowing, until it reaches 68, then the boiler stopped kicking in. However, the apartment does not seem to go above 70 degrees, even i have the thermostat ste at 80 degrees. The water sound will keep flowing...but stayed at 70 degrees as room temp.

Here is a closer picture of the boiler in question.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/IMG_2564.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/IMG_2565.jpg

Is there anything that I can set to eliminate the HUGE noise of water flowing?


1ST FLOOR ( NEW BOILER ) - This could be b/c the thermostat was no good, the plumber changed it to a new one, and i will test it out in a little bit. But it seems ok so far.

Any experts can give some advice on the 2nd floor boiler? It does not have any pressure gauge, or temperature gauge, so i cannot tell what is the current psi setting, or the temp setting. However, it does not do the 14 minutes / 4 minutes / 14 minutes anymore....

Thanks,
T
 
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