Oil Boiler Questions - please help


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Old 11-22-07, 07:57 PM
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Oil Boiler Questions - please help

I have an Emerald Oil Boiler:

here is a photo:

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3410/boilerec7.jpg

Currently I am having a problem with getting enough hot water to come out both of the sink and shower for any length of time.

sometimes it will be hot, other times it surges.

Either way I don't what else to do. I've tried messing with the different settings for Hi and Lo.

I've tried 175 Hi and 130 Lo.
I've tried 140 Hi and 120 Lo.

Both produce the same effect. Hot water will come out for maybe 4-5minutes and then go cold again. I know its really hard to determine what could be wrong over the internet, but maybe if someone has a suggestion to try...

I have heard of a mixer valve located on the boilers somewhere, I don't see one located anywhere on my system; unless it's internal.

Anyone have anything for me? Thanks for taking the time to read.
 
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Old 11-22-07, 08:21 PM
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First off, the HIGH setting controls your heating system, and not the hot water coil. You should leave that one set up where it was, appx 180*F is pretty much standard.

The LOW setting is the temp that your boiler will maintain when it's not heating the house, and that should probably be around 140*F with the DIFF set to about 20 or 25* ...

That said, it's possible that your coil is clogged up. Over time minerals build up inside the coil choking the flow and reducing heat transfer. They can be cleaned, but it involves using an acid solution, and is best left to a service man, since the pipes need to be disconnected to do so.

Is this a new development ? I mean, have you been in the home for a while and always had good hot water ? or are you new to this home.

That system is called a "tankless coil" water heater and is never going to give you a lot of hot water...

I don't see a mixing valve on your system. Mixing valves prevent very hot water from making it's way to the taps, and reduce the risk of scalding. Most jurisdictions are adopting requirements for them on new installations.
 
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Old 11-22-07, 08:29 PM
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Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nah I don't have a mixing valve. I would be happy with scalding water though lol, I mean I'd turn it down. I get crap for hot water man, it barely feels warm in the morning.

I will adjust those three settings right now, and see what happens.

What else would you recommend? A mixer valve for hotter water?
 
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Old 11-22-07, 08:31 PM
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Forgot to ask ... I wonder if the heat in the home is working OK ? Can you tell us what is the pressure and temperature on the boiler gauge reading ?
 
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Old 11-22-07, 08:34 PM
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Is this a new development ? I mean, have you been in the home for a while and always had good hot water ? or are you new to this home

Nah it has pretty much always sucked..

You mentioned that it wouldn't really ever produce really hot water. Do you recommend getting a new system then?? or ???
 
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Old 11-22-07, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sink881
What else would you recommend? A mixer valve for hotter water?
No, the mixing valve can only give you cooler water. If you don't have one, what you get is as hot as it can be.

Those things mix some cool water with the hot to cool it down.

Dang it! I HATE this 5 minute waiting period between messages !
 
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Old 11-22-07, 08:44 PM
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Heating is ok I guess, upstairs seems better than downstairs in my opinion but no big deal..

Let's see..

The oil boiler is on right now at the readings are:

5 PSI
140F Temp
 
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Old 11-22-07, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sink881
You mentioned that it wouldn't really ever produce really hot water. Do you recommend getting a new system then?? or ???
Oh the water can be REAL HOT! Just not a whole heck of a lot of it ... see, there's no 'storage' of hot water like if you had an electric or gas water heater with 40 gallons in it. Yer limited to the water passing through the coil being heated as you are demanding it.

You don't really have to replace the entire boiler though, if it's working ok to heat the house. Probly talking at least 5000 bucks to do that. It is an oldie though, ain't it ?

The best way to heat water is with what's called an 'indirect' water heater, but those are pretty expensive too, like maybe $1000 installed. They are basically a 40-80 gall tank with a coil inside that is heated by the boiler. Kinda like another heating zone.

I dunno... if you've got the bucks, you could replace the boiler with a more modern unit, and have an indirect installed at the same time...

Another option is to have an electric or gas (if you've got gas) water heater installed.

You could call a service guy to clean the coil too... that might cost a couple hundred. It would work _better_ but never GREAT.
 
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Old 11-22-07, 08:49 PM
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Now it just turned off and is around 9PSI and around 180F
 
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Old 11-22-07, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sink881
5 PSI
The temp at 140 is probly gonna go up, but that 5 PSI is WAY LOW! that might be part of your problem... That pressure should be minimum like 12 PSI ...

[edit: yeah, that 180 degrees is fine, but 9 PSI ... bad ...]

before you do anything though, you should make sure the gauge is reading right.

You can get a gauge with a hose fitting on it at Lowes or Home Depot for around 10 bucks. These are used by lawn sprinkler folks for checking pressures in the system. You can use it on your boiler by screwing it onto one of the drains and opening the drain valve. If its reading agrees with the gauge on the boiler, you need to get that pressure up where it belongs.

Do you know what kind of expansion tank you have ? I'm guessing it's a big ole tank up in the rafters.
 
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Old 11-22-07, 08:54 PM
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this info helps us a lot, thanks a lot man!
 
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Old 11-22-07, 09:00 PM
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300 second post limit is annoying.


anyways its an Amtrol/Extrol Expansion tank:

Here is a picture:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2...pansionyb4.jpg
 
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Old 11-22-07, 09:00 PM
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no prob... if you pick the gauge up, and need info on increasing the pressure, stop back and let us know...

OK, looks like you got a new air vent, but that rusty flue pipe has me a bit concerned... that don't look good.

Did you replace the air vent ? or a service guy ? if you did it, when was the last time the system was serviced and cleaned ?

Do you have smoke alarms and CO detectors in the house ?

Happy (what's left of) Thanksgiving !
 
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Old 11-22-07, 09:18 PM
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Yeah, I'll check into that. So even if the pressure is the same when I hook up the pressure tester. Where could the leak be??

Leak in the line somewhere?
 
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Old 11-22-07, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sink881
Yeah, I'll check into that. So even if the pressure is the same when I hook up the pressure tester. Where could the leak be??

Leak in the line somewhere?
Might not be a leak... just over the years they lose pressure sometimes. It does look like you had some work done though, that tan bell shaped thing (pressure reducing valve) looks pretty new, as does that air vent. Maybe when the system was drained to replace those, the pressure never got set back to where it should be ...

Let's assume the gauge is accurate for now...

You see that "handle" on the top of the pressure reducing valve ? If you pull up on that a bit, it will let water into the system. Don't hold it a long time, but watch the gauge when you do. Hold it until the gauge reads like 10-12 PSI and see if that don't improve your hot water. (and your heating).
 
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Old 11-22-07, 09:33 PM
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oh crap that is an actual lever hahahahahha

it went up to about 12 and I let it go.

WOW..

Ok so what did that do??
 
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Old 11-22-07, 09:41 PM
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Added some water to the boiler and brought the pressure up to where it should be. Run it like that and see if the hot water is any better. I'm thinking it's not gonna be, but you do need at least 12 PSI in there normally.

but, when was the last time the system was serviced ? Oil burners should be serviced every year... at the very LEAST, the filter should be changed, and the oil nozzle.

Reason I ask is becuz the service guy should have mentioned that rusty flue pipe ... maybe he just wanted to get done and go home though ?
 
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Old 11-22-07, 09:46 PM
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It was serviced and cleaned about a year ago.

You think the pressure will stay at 12psi now? Or will it flutter back down you think?? I just checked, it still is at 12 too.
 
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Old 11-22-07, 09:53 PM
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It will probably go back down when the boiler cools off. But, your boiler pretty much stays hot all the time so it should hang pretty good. If you do see it go down again, start looking around for leaks. Thing is, if it's a slow leak, you might not see any water cuz it will evaporate pretty quick when it comes out at 180* . If you see places on the pipe where there is a lot of green or white deposits around a joint, then that might could be a slow leak.

but just keep your eye on it, you should be ok.

I gotta hit the sack, work tomorrow... good luck!
 
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Old 11-22-07, 10:00 PM
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cool, thanks for all your help.
 
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Old 11-23-07, 04:25 PM
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Start saving

Start saving your $ for a new boiler & indirect. That boiler was a cheapie when it was new & hasn't gotten any better with age.
 
 

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