Boiler making noise and inefficient. Raypak Gas Boiler.


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Old 12-01-07, 09:25 PM
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Boiler making noise and inefficient. Raypak Gas Boiler.

http://www.raypak.com/uploads/2100.50Z.pdf
0135B model
3 Zones

At the end of last years cold season our boiler started making a loud vibrating noise and we got a huge bill that was about $100 more than average. Right around that time we had a small gas leak, so I just attributed it to the gas leak. Also I changed the heat setting from 190-170 off-on to 170-150 off-on.

I can never tell exactly where the vibrating is coming from. For some reason it kinda hit me that maybe the pump is going bad. Would explain the boilers poor performance (cost) and the noise. The pump is a TACO 1/8hp model.

Can I unhook the pump and turn the boiler on to see if it is quiet. Boiler should fire up even though the water isn't circulating correct? Also any opinions on my 170 off and 150 on settings? maybe I should move it up a little?

Thanks a bunch.
 

Last edited by scarywoody; 12-01-07 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 12-02-07, 09:51 AM
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Woody, is this noise always there when the boiler is running ? or is it intermittent ?

I suppose it could be the circ, but if it were I would think that you could easily determine that by just listening...

I don't see any reason why you could not disconnect the circ for a few minutes to try and isolate the source of the noise. Yes the boiler will still run.


Caution!
Be aware that there is 120VAC present at the circulator connections! Please turn off the power before you work on it. Don't leave the wires hanging bare when you power it back up! Tape them to avoid accidental contact!
 
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Old 12-02-07, 10:34 AM
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Noisy Boiler

If you determine the circulator to be the source of the noise, please post the model # of the circ. The 1/8 HP sounds like an unusual sized motor.
 
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Old 12-02-07, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
If you determine the circulator to be the source of the noise, please post the model # of the circ. The 1/8 HP sounds like an unusual sized motor.
I'm curious about this also, the drawing of the circ in the PDF file looks unusual also...
 
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Old 12-02-07, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
Woody, is this noise always there when the boiler is running ? or is it intermittent ?
It is constant. From the moment the boiler kicks on and thinks about firing up the noise is there.


Ok I'll try and unhook the circulator sometime tonight.

The circulator is a Taco 0011-BF4-J

http://www.aaasolar.com/ProdLit/Taco/011.pdf
 
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Old 12-02-07, 02:59 PM
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That 011 is pretty much a monster circulator... I wonder if you really need that much pump on your system ?

By setting the temps lower on the controls, you will be limiting the output of the unit, you may not notice it now that it's still not really cold, but when it gets cold out you might. It didn't change the noise any, right ? so set it back.
 
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Old 12-02-07, 03:30 PM
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Here's a quote from the Raypak PDF... I wonder if someone did something with the bypass valve that they mention and if what you are hearing are "harmonics" ?


The boiler is supplied with a circulator and built-in
bypass as standard to ensure the required minimum
water flow in the boiler. The bypass on models H-0135
and H-0180 is provided with an adjustable valve that is
factory-set in the full open position. The handle is shipped
loose. The full open position is appropriate for most
systems, and ensures adequate flow through the boiler.
If system flow is inadequate, (indicated by excessive
temperature drop through the system) the bypass valve
can be throttled slightly. Care must be taken against over
-throttling which may lead to inadequate flow through the
boiler and boiler harmonics (a humming sound from the
heat exchanger). If adequate system flow cannot be
obtained without causing harmonics, an additional pump
is required. The factory-mounted circulator will provide
adequate water flow for systems designed at a 20F
temperature drop, and system pressure drop or head not
exceeding that which is shown below.
 
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Old 12-02-07, 03:43 PM
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Circulator

I noticed the "B" in the circulator model number. This designates the circulator as being bronze. Is this boiler part of a solar or other open system?
 
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Old 12-02-07, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
I noticed the "B" in the circulator model number. This designates the circulator as being bronze. Is this boiler part of a solar or other open system?
Well it is attatched to my swimming pool heater, but we don't use it. The valve to the swimming pool is always closed
 
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Old 12-02-07, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
Here's a quote from the Raypak PDF... I wonder if someone did something with the bypass valve that they mention and if what you are hearing are "harmonics" ?


The boiler is supplied with a circulator and built-in
bypass as standard to ensure the required minimum
water flow in the boiler. The bypass on models H-0135
and H-0180 is provided with an adjustable valve that is
factory-set in the full open position. The handle is shipped
loose. The full open position is appropriate for most
systems, and ensures adequate flow through the boiler.
If system flow is inadequate, (indicated by excessive
temperature drop through the system) the bypass valve
can be throttled slightly. Care must be taken against over
-throttling which may lead to inadequate flow through the
boiler and boiler harmonics (a humming sound from the
heat exchanger). If adequate system flow cannot be
obtained without causing harmonics, an additional pump
is required. The factory-mounted circulator will provide
adequate water flow for systems designed at a 20F
temperature drop, and system pressure drop or head not
exceeding that which is shown below.
I read that and don't think I fully understand what it is saying. I'm not at home yet, but I'm 98% sure the bypass is fully opened.

Also I still haven't unhooked the power to the pump and fired it up. I'll do that tonight
 
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Old 12-02-07, 05:08 PM
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There's supposed to be a heat exchanger on swimming pool heating circuits... so you wouldn't need a bronze for that... but you don't want to replace that pump! check the price:

011-BF4
 
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Old 12-02-07, 06:22 PM
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Ha tell me about it. I think I should just be able to get a replacement cartridge instead of replacing the pump. Anyhoo I meesed around and here are the results.


Unhooked pump from system. I'd let the sytem kick on and then turn the boiler off right before it fired up. First time was quiet and the second time there was a constant ticking like a breaker or relay stuck. Didn't sound like the standard noise i'm chasing though.

Hooked the pump back up. It fired up and the noise was there. I decided to play with the bypass valve we talked about earlier. I was able to change the frequency soundwise when I'd close the valve a bit, so i think it has something to do with the pump. Maybe I should order a replacement cartridge.?

Also I rechecked my older posts here and I recall having a short conversation with grady about mineral deposits in my lines. Could some of these have fouled up the pump?

http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=299637

Hmmm according to that thread:

Air in lines

Figure out it's the pool heater chamber where the air is accumulating.

Release air

Boiler becomes louder and inefficient. Maybe something was growing on the big pool heater chamber and when I released the air I took whatever crub was in there and added it to my system. I think it's cast iron.
 
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Old 12-02-07, 06:26 PM
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Old 12-02-07, 06:49 PM
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Circ. Cartridge

The cartridge is certainly far cheaper than the whole circulator. If you have no intentions of ever using the pool heater, I doubt you need a circulator anywhere near that big. Mabe a little 'ol 007 would do the trick just for heating the house unless we're talking about a really big system.
 
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Old 12-02-07, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
The cartridge is certainly far cheaper than the whole circulator. If you have no intentions of ever using the pool heater, I doubt you need a circulator anywhere near that big. Mabe a little 'ol 007 would do the trick just for heating the house unless we're talking about a really big system.

Sooo you agree that I should probably replace the circulator based on my observations?
 
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Old 12-02-07, 07:44 PM
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Circulator

I think before I replaced it, if you have valves on both sides, I'd remove & inspect for any damage to the impeller. If none is found, that pretty well scratches the chunks of crud theory but does not eliminate the circulator all together. With the circulator out, you could open the valve below the circultor just to see if chunks of junk flush out. I hate to see anyone plunk down money for replacement parts if they are not needed.
 
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Old 12-03-07, 03:15 PM
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I think I'm going to go ahead and order it just to have it on hand. I don't really want to take it apart and then be stuck without heat if it's decided the cartidge is bad. I wonder if i need to track down some random o-rings if i end up replacing the cartridge. Anyone know?

So I guess my plan is to drain the system.......open pump....check cartridge....replace if needed. I'm debating if i should remove the tube bundle and make sure no debris are stuck in there as shown on page 30 of
http://www.raypak.com/uploads/2100.50Z.pdf
 
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Old 12-03-07, 04:26 PM
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O-rings

O-rings should come with the cartridge. Every one I've replaced has had new o O-rings with it.

I can't see where it would hurt to open up the tube bundle for a look-see. If needed you could clean them. It looks like the part numbers for the cleaning tools are included.
 
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Old 12-03-07, 05:04 PM
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Yeah I figure if there are any larger debris they may settle down there during draining instead of being washed out.
 
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Old 12-08-07, 10:42 PM
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Still waiting for the cartridge
 
 

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