boiler sounds angry
#1
12-03-07, 01:04 PM
boiler sounds angry
hi. this is my first winter in this house, and my first experience with a natural gas fired hydronic boiler/baseboards. it seams to heat my house but it makes very loud knocks and bangs when it fires every few minutes. the boiler rattles the whole house, with help from the pipes. there are also pipe expantion noises, but it seams to be mainly the boiler itself making all the noise and vibrations. the psi gauge needle shakes while this happens but stays at 20-25 psi when it's off, or not firing. by the way,this boiler stays hot 160-180 F even when no heat is called.(gas company/installers say that's normal).
also, the water safety relief valve, spits out water with every cycle, and when i press the little lever on it. is this normal, and requires a drain(bucket is too small) or is it another problem?
i hope someone can help me tame my boiler. the knocks it makes are a real nuissance, and can't be good for it's longevity. i almost wish i had electric heat! thanks
also, the water safety relief valve, spits out water with every cycle, and when i press the little lever on it. is this normal, and requires a drain(bucket is too small) or is it another problem?
i hope someone can help me tame my boiler. the knocks it makes are a real nuissance, and can't be good for it's longevity. i almost wish i had electric heat! thanks
#2
12-03-07, 01:37 PM
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No, it is NOT normal for the safety relief valve to have to release excessive pressure from the boiler. The good news is it is working and doing it's job; otherwise the boiler could explode!
Using a bucket to capture the spillage is hiding the problem and I think may violate code.
You may have a defective bladder tank, or a water logged expansion tank that is causing this problem. If you have a domestic coil in the boiler, it could be leaking and causing the pressure to rise. See the sticky at the top of this forum for more information. The noisy boiler indicates other problems, it might be a good time to have the unit professionally looked at.
Using a bucket to capture the spillage is hiding the problem and I think may violate code.
You may have a defective bladder tank, or a water logged expansion tank that is causing this problem. If you have a domestic coil in the boiler, it could be leaking and causing the pressure to rise. See the sticky at the top of this forum for more information. The noisy boiler indicates other problems, it might be a good time to have the unit professionally looked at.
#3
12-03-07, 01:49 PM
Electric heat you say?
Well hydronic IS THE BEST , so don`t be discouraged!
The "rattling" boiler prob could be caused by many things, improper near boiler piping, "liming"(if fed a lot of make-up water often).
You didn`t say what kind of boiler it is,,cast-iron or copper-fin?
If CI, does it have a coil within to provide your domestic HW?
Perhaps that`s why you were told to keep it so hot.
Lastly, it sounds like the pressure is too high, which is likely an expansion tank prob. Any more details (a few pics), would certainly help!
The "rattling" boiler prob could be caused by many things, improper near boiler piping, "liming"(if fed a lot of make-up water often).
You didn`t say what kind of boiler it is,,cast-iron or copper-fin?
If CI, does it have a coil within to provide your domestic HW?
Perhaps that`s why you were told to keep it so hot.
Lastly, it sounds like the pressure is too high, which is likely an expansion tank prob. Any more details (a few pics), would certainly help!
#4
12-03-07, 02:35 PM
wow! i'm amazed by these quick reponses. i can't figure out how to post pics. my 'posting rules' box says i may not post attachments. i must be missing something.
i don't know if it's copper or cast iron but it is not connected to my hot water.
i guess i should have it looked at, but it was inspected by the only company in town this fall and they said the banging was normal, but the water relief valve had not started spilling any water then. you guys seem to care more than they do.
is the bladder and expansion tank the same thing? is it worth trying to replace it? should i try and reduce the water pressure? should have it cleaned by this company?
i'll try to post pics.
thanks
i don't know if it's copper or cast iron but it is not connected to my hot water.
i guess i should have it looked at, but it was inspected by the only company in town this fall and they said the banging was normal, but the water relief valve had not started spilling any water then. you guys seem to care more than they do.
is the bladder and expansion tank the same thing? is it worth trying to replace it? should i try and reduce the water pressure? should have it cleaned by this company?
i'll try to post pics.
thanks
#7
12-03-07, 04:08 PM
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1056.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1055.jpg
here are a couple pics. my batteries died before could take close ups. i don't know if they help but at least i'm figuring my way through this site...i hope.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1055.jpg
here are a couple pics. my batteries died before could take close ups. i don't know if they help but at least i'm figuring my way through this site...i hope.
#9
12-03-07, 04:21 PM
Yep, doing good Hull!
I see one thing that should be addressed:
That fancy monogrammed piece of PVC pipe (what is that anyway?) has to go. That relief valve should be piped properly to within 6" of the floor. No threads on the bottom of the pipe.
What I see that is good is that you have a Low Water Cut Off and a secondary high limit installed... (the blue box, and the gray box above it)
I see one thing that should be addressed:
That fancy monogrammed piece of PVC pipe (what is that anyway?) has to go. That relief valve should be piped properly to within 6" of the floor. No threads on the bottom of the pipe.
What I see that is good is that you have a Low Water Cut Off and a secondary high limit installed... (the blue box, and the gray box above it)
Last edited by NJT; 12-03-07 at 04:59 PM.
#10
12-03-07, 04:34 PM
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#12
12-03-07, 04:49 PM
that big pumps is always on. is that right?
what looks like white PVC is a tin box that i put there to catch the water released from the water relief valve. it looks fancy because it used to hold a bottle of champagne...in a better life. it's the only thing i could find that would fit in that tight space. i guess it's a band aid now, but better than water falling on the floor and the wall of the boiler. can i thread in a plastic extention (like the one's on domestic hot water heaters)to the releif valve to get to 6" off the ground or must it be metal pipe?
thanks. i still can't believe people are paying interest to my questions. really refreshing.
what looks like white PVC is a tin box that i put there to catch the water released from the water relief valve. it looks fancy because it used to hold a bottle of champagne...in a better life. it's the only thing i could find that would fit in that tight space. i guess it's a band aid now, but better than water falling on the floor and the wall of the boiler. can i thread in a plastic extention (like the one's on domestic hot water heaters)to the releif valve to get to 6" off the ground or must it be metal pipe?
thanks. i still can't believe people are paying interest to my questions. really refreshing.
#13
12-03-07, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Olsen
If CI, does it have a coil within to provide your domestic HW? Perhaps that`s why you were told to keep it so hot.
Lastly, it sounds like the pressure is too high, which is likely an expansion tank prob. Any more details (a few pics), would certainly help!
Lastly, it sounds like the pressure is too high, which is likely an expansion tank prob. Any more details (a few pics), would certainly help!
Olsen, should that valve be opened some ?
I'm waiting to see more pics, because I don't see an air scoop or auto-vent on the system either.
No plastic, use metal. You can probly get a piece of black iron at the hardware store ... use 3/4" ... ask them to cut the threads off one end (if they will). Likely the threads in that elbow are crudded up, so might be a little fussing to get it in there... or, you could just pull the elbow and nipple, get a new slightly longer nipple, and elbow, and just replace the whole thing.
We love this stuff... it's addictive ya know !
#14
12-03-07, 05:52 PM
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Teflon Tape, etc.
I'm staying out of that one. Furd busted me a few weeks ago about saying that teflon tape was a no-no. It seems one manufacturer insists on teflon tape & another is adamant
about NOT using the stuff.
Is that black pipe with the white print & blue stripe plastic?? Maybe steel pipe with a plastic cover? If it's plain black steel pipe, I've never seen any so fancy.
You say the huge circulator runs all the time? Where do the pipes from it go?
Let's get on to the pressure problem. We need to check the pressure in the expansion (bladder) tank. To do so, you need to shut the boiler down & let it cool. Next find a bell shaped piece in the feed water piping (probably 1/2" pipe). Somewhere along that pipe should be a shut off valve. Turn it off & drain enough water from the boiler to drop the pressure to or near zero. Remove the cap from the bottom of the tank & use a tire gauge to check the pressure (should be about 12#). If any water comes out of the tire valve, the tank must be replaced. Let us know the pressure.
about NOT using the stuff.
Is that black pipe with the white print & blue stripe plastic?? Maybe steel pipe with a plastic cover? If it's plain black steel pipe, I've never seen any so fancy.
You say the huge circulator runs all the time? Where do the pipes from it go?
Let's get on to the pressure problem. We need to check the pressure in the expansion (bladder) tank. To do so, you need to shut the boiler down & let it cool. Next find a bell shaped piece in the feed water piping (probably 1/2" pipe). Somewhere along that pipe should be a shut off valve. Turn it off & drain enough water from the boiler to drop the pressure to or near zero. Remove the cap from the bottom of the tank & use a tire gauge to check the pressure (should be about 12#). If any water comes out of the tire valve, the tank must be replaced. Let us know the pressure.
#15
12-03-07, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady
I'm staying out of that one. Furd busted me a few weeks ago about saying that teflon tape was a no-no. It seems one manufacturer insists on teflon tape & another is adamant
about NOT using the stuff.
.
about NOT using the stuff.
.
That is same LWCO I have. They say no teflon, I used teflon. All of my electrical runs have a green ground wire return, and everything is bonded, so the LWCO probe has a proper return path.
I don't think mounting the probe in a dead-headed narrow horizontal run--in the fashion show--is quite kosher though. It should be inserted into the vertical supply pipe using a wide tee.
Pete
#16
12-03-07, 07:06 PM
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Lwco
Yes Pete, I agree. I would seriously question if that control would actually work in a low water situation. I always install my LWCO's with a ball valve above, a boiler drain below, & a second ball vlave below that. Takes a little longer to pipe, but makes it very easy to test. I detest the ones with a manual "test" button. All that does is test the circuitry not the actual fuction of the LWCO.
#17
12-03-07, 07:35 PM
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1062.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1061.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1060.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1059.jpg
here's a few more pics. not sure what to focus on. i can supply pics of details if need be.
the black pipe with white writing is the nat gas supply. it's black metal, and new.
i don't see any teflon tape used on any threaded conection. it's a white putty/glue substance.
the circulator/pump is connected to the 'inlet' of the boiler and the copper pipe the goes up is the return of the system.
i'll do the pressure test on the bladder but that'll have to wait until tomorrow as i don't have a tire pressure gauge.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1061.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1060.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1059.jpg
here's a few more pics. not sure what to focus on. i can supply pics of details if need be.
the black pipe with white writing is the nat gas supply. it's black metal, and new.
i don't see any teflon tape used on any threaded conection. it's a white putty/glue substance.
the circulator/pump is connected to the 'inlet' of the boiler and the copper pipe the goes up is the return of the system.
i'll do the pressure test on the bladder but that'll have to wait until tomorrow as i don't have a tire pressure gauge.
#18
12-03-07, 07:44 PM
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1062.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1061.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1060.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1059.jpg
here's a few more pics. not sure what to focus on. i can supply pics of details if need be.
the black pipe with white writing is the nat gas supply. it's black metal, and new.
i don't see any teflon tape used on any threaded conection. it's a white putty/glue substance.
the circulator/pump is connected to the 'inlet' of the boiler and the copper pipe the goes up is the return of the system.
i'll do the pressure test on the bladder but that'll have to wait until tomorrow as i don't have a tire pressure gauge.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1061.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1060.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1059.jpg
here's a few more pics. not sure what to focus on. i can supply pics of details if need be.
the black pipe with white writing is the nat gas supply. it's black metal, and new.
i don't see any teflon tape used on any threaded conection. it's a white putty/glue substance.
the circulator/pump is connected to the 'inlet' of the boiler and the copper pipe the goes up is the return of the system.
i'll do the pressure test on the bladder but that'll have to wait until tomorrow as i don't have a tire pressure gauge.
#19
12-03-07, 08:45 PM
What type of thermostat
What type of thermostat do you have? Because "fromhull" wrote "when it fires every few minutes" leads me to believe that you may have an old mercury thermostat.
I had a similar problem when it seem like the boiler was firing every ten minutes. I switched it out to a Programmable one and haven't had any problems.
I had a similar problem when it seem like the boiler was firing every ten minutes. I switched it out to a Programmable one and haven't had any problems.
#20
12-04-07, 09:30 AM
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1063.jpg
it is a mercury thermostat. i would like to upgrade to a programmable one. would that affect the loud banging noises?
how frequent are normal cycles?
it is a mercury thermostat. i would like to upgrade to a programmable one. would that affect the loud banging noises?
how frequent are normal cycles?
