I currently have a 1 zone hydronic system that I am expanding to a 3 zone system. I have the circulator listed above and it runs non-stop. If I use zone valves I would want the circulator to only run when one of the zones is calling for heat. How do I convert this circulator to this use?

Once I have all of the controls installed is there somewhere I can find a wiring diagram?

I have to drill some 1 1/2" holes through ceramic tile. A bricklayer buddy told me a masonry bit would do it, but I thought I would need a carbide tip. What do I need? Also, what's the best way to cut 1 1'2" holes cleanly through linoleum and carpeting. I don't want to make a mess.

Thanks,

Sherm

 

What boiler model do you have. Is it gas or oil? Please supply more information.

 

Why is the circulator running non-stop ?

Zone valves have an 'end switch' on each one that gets wired in parallel and fires the boiler, and (usually) the circulator too...

Tell us more about the boiler and how it is currently connected.

Sorry I can't help ya on the holes... I'd post those questions in another of the forums devoted to that stuff...

 

The boiler is a National Model 3W-99A-PA burning Natural Gas.

 

Do I have to connect a relay to the circulator to get it to only run when a zone calls for heat? Currently it's wired directly to 110vac. When I install zone valves I have to wire them into something to control the circulator. Currently there is no way to do that.

The circulator runs non-stop because there is only one zone at present and it was the best way to do it for that design.

 

Not familiar with your boiler Sherm, but I'm gonna see if I can hunt it down on the web later.

Isn't there an aquastat on there that controls the burners and the circulator ?

I'll find ya some links that might help you sort it out...

By the way, if you can, post some pics on www.photobucket.com (free) of the boiler and controls/piping. It would help to see what we're talking about.

be back later on...

 

There is a Honeywell Aquastat. It is stamped L4006A 1827. I don't know if those #'s are a model # or not.

Sherm

 

I can't find anything specific on your boiler... just too many companies named National ... even if I put "boiler' in the search... and no hits at all on that model number.

Is this a real oldtimer ? Any more info on the nameplate that might help me find something on it ?

You will need a 'relay panel' more than likely to set up to do what you want. go to www.taco-hvac.com and look over some of their controls...

 

Add a multi-zone relay and wire it in series to start the boiler

 

Yessir, L4006 is the model number... good...

what is the existing thermostat wired to ?

 

A very simple way to wire this is to use a Taco Zone Valve Control. No muss, no fuss.

http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/Fil...ry/100-5.1.pdf

 

This is an old boiler that was manufactured by Crane.

 

L4006 is a high end limit with an adjustable differential. No circulator terminals on that aquastat. He probably has a relay box on the stat controlling the boiler demand and the circulator.

Pete

 

Thermostat is wired to the Gas valve.

 

Does the circulator run 24/7/365?

Never stops?

pete

 

The circulator is wired directly into the 110vac with no controls running it. The on/off switch is the only way to control it. So I assume when I go to 3 zones I must convert to a normally off circulator. If this is false let me know.

If I must convert to a normally off circulator, how do I control the circulator. The Taco Zone Valve Control does not appear to do it. My uneducated guess is that a relay needs to be installed to control the circulator. I'm sure there is a control for this I'm not familiar with.

Thanks for the help.

Sherm

 

Sherm, there are terminals for the circulator on that zone panel that Xiphias showed you, look in the lower left of the schematic. Ignore the circulator for DHW. You would only need to use the System circulator.

You could also use a SR501, and discrete wire the zone valves, an external 24VAC transformer, and the thermostats. A little more work, not as neat and clean, but probably a bit cheaper.

Nice thing about that panel, you put it on the wall and wire everything to it.

 

NJ Trooper,

Thanks for the info on the control panel. I downloaded the info, but I would need Superman's vision to read the wiring diagrams.

Do I run the 110 vac from the control panel to the circulator?

Sherm

 

Sherm, your Adobe reader should have a 'magnifying glass' that you can click to enlarge the view.

The terminals that the circulator connects to on that panel are a set of relay contacts. Yes, you would wire up the 120VAC to those connections and the relay in the control panel would turn the circulator on and off as required.

There is another set of terminals to the right of those that would wire to the boiler at the same point that the existing thermostat goes to now. The existing thermostat would get wired to one of the zone inputs at the top of the diagram.

I believe that panel requires external transformer also... No, the transformer is built in...

 

I think the file that Xiphias posted is for the ZVC404-EXP ... which you could probably use the regular ZVC404 without the EXP, unless you plan to expand the system in the future.

ZVC 404 _not_ EXP (click)

Nice thing about using a panel with an extra space is that if you have a zone go down, you can move wires to the 'spare' zone.

BUT, if you are on a budget, and you are absolutely sure that you will never add another zone, you could even use the 403 . It's a LOT cheaper than the others also...

ZVC-403

Patriot Supply has them for under $100

 

Since the other guys have pretty well covered the controls questions, I'll jump in on the hole cutting. In vinyl flooring, I use a hole saw. For the carpet, trace a slightly larger circle than the hole needs to be & cut with a razor knife. You can cut an X in the circle & just trim from there. I just drilled some holes (5/16") in ceramic tile with a carbide tipped bit & it was no picnic. DO NOT USE A HAMMER DRILL. I can't imagine 1½" holes. I would get someone experienced to do it.

 

Oh yeah, the hole thing. Basically what Grady said. For vinyl a SHARP hole saw. Not the one you should have bought a new bit for last year because it takes forever to go through the 3/4" plywood you've been drilling for the past X years and periodically hit a nail. A layer of masking tape is sometimes helpful, too, if only to delineate the work area. Ditto on the carpet. Slightly larger hole cut with SHARP blade. Here also, masking tape can be helpful to keep carpet strands from wandering over to the drill bit when drilling.

Ceramic and porcelain tile. Absolutely no hammer drill. Best results are achieved with a diamond or similar high end bit, the cost of which is at or above what it would cost to get a tile guy to come over for 15 minutes and drill it for you using his high end bit.

If you are drilling holes to run hydronic piping, then check out the slantfin baseboard installation guide at www.slantfin.com. Nice tips on where to put the holes to allow adequate expansion space, etc.

 

I assume the optional system circulator installs on the zone valve controller and then gets wired to the circulator and gas valve. Is this correct?

Thanks,

Sherm

 

If I understand your question correctly, no, not exactly.

Take a look at the 403 panel diagram. It only shows the basics, and is a bit easier to follow. The other panels have more features than this one, and can cloud the thinking a bit.

Your _existing_ circulator IS the 'optional system circulator' in your case. (on the 403 diagram, only one circulator is shown)

You see, not everyone that uses that panel will have their circulator wired into it. Most have the system circulator running off an aquastat on the boiler. Since you have an older system, your aquastat is not equipped to run the circulator by itself.

You would re-wire your existing circulator as shown in the install diagram, and it will only run when one of the zones is calling for heat.

The two wires that come from your existing thermostat will now go to one of the zone inputs, along with the two additional pairs of thermostat wires.

Where the existing thermostat WAS wired to the boiler will now be wired to the 'end switch' and the circulator wired to the 'dry contacts' on the Taco panel.

Here's a sequence of operation:

Any one (or multiple) zones call for heat.

Their respective zone valve will open. That (those) zone valves will then signal the panel that they are open.

When the panel is informed that a zone valve is open, it will signal the boiler and the circulator to turn on via the 'end switch' terminals.

There is another plus for using this panel. If/when you decide to have a new boiler installed, there should be very little re-wiring to be done, and the Taco panel can be used as-is for the new system.

 

Thanks everyone for all of the help. I'm going to start running baseboard after the New Year and will get to re-doing the boiler controls when I'm done. I'm not in good health so I work slow. I'll be back with more questions as needed.

Thanks again,

Sherm

 

NJ Trooper,

I just re-read your last answer and I'm confused on how the circulator is controlled by the zone valve controller. Currently the circulator is wired with 110vac. It has no 24vconnectors/relays.

If this zone control valve is going to control the circulator it has to use the 24 v system to turn the circulator on and off and 110vac to run the circulator. Either a 110vac line must be run through the zone valve controller to the circulator or a 24 v relay must be connected from the zone valve controller to the circulator. How does the zone valve controller wire up to the circulator?

Thanks,

Sherm

 

Sherm, the 24 V relay is a part of the control panel. The terminals that the circulator are wired to are the contacts on that relay.

Yes, the 120 VAC goes to the control panel, to the terminal shown in the schematic. The 120 VAC wires for the circulator come from those terminals also.

Basically, the control panel switches the 120VAC to the circulator on and off as needed.

 

Thanks for all your help.

Sherm