always get lot's of help here.....I have the above heater/boiler system.....running out of hot water quickly these days...Ihave researched and have a decent idea of how it works....bought the house with it..it is around 12 years old...we have hard water here in Albuq............I read somewhere to bleed of the valve on top in case I have air in the tank until water comes out....I crossed my fingers and released the valve...I do not feel any air coming out, but can hear what seems like water running in....did this for a about a minute and got scared and stopped!....should I continue the release the valve until water is present out of the pressure relief valve???....any other ideas??.......draining and cleaning with CLR seems to be a huge project.........

 

What's the boiler pressure? Is it the T&P valve on the domestic water side that you're pulling?

 

it is the one on top of the unit..........I just seems like I am running water through it.....but it not going anywhere I would think?? except into the tank to fill it all the way up???...don't know the pressure nor how to find that

 

Are you pushing on a bicycle or car-tire type (schraeder) valve? If you a "filling a tank" then likely you are not doing the right thing.

Post some pics a www.photobucket.com if you can and describe which valve you are tweaking.

 

Got a digital camera? If so, take a pic, load it into photobucket or some other hosting site and then post a link to it. It would much easier to help.

 

http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t...by1824/amtrol/

ok there are are the pics......the one that say inlet/outlet are the pipes that come out of the valve...the pipe with the red valve control I believe is the outlet?? since the other one goes into the wall near the cold water shut off...

more info as well...I just took a shower (1/2 hour after letting the valve run) and little or no hot water.........could it be my tank only had half the water or something?? and by releasing the valve on top I am filling it up???..that would explain hot water running out quickly before....the temp control ( mine isnot digital) "clicks" at about 2 out of 6, meaning that is where the temp is inside I would think......way too low. I will check hot water later when I get back and let it heat for the day....

 

Looking at the pictures... On the top of the BOILERMATE tank (your hot water tank) there is a brass valve with a silver handle. This is the Temperature and Pressure Relief valve. [B]Is this the valve you are opening ?

There is a pipe coming off that valve, leading someplace... where does that pipe lead to ? Can you show us a picture of that please ?

When you turn the temperature control on the water heater, you say it 'clicks' ... when you turn it UP, and it clicks, DOES THE BOILER FIRE ?

A BIGGER problem would probably arise if you introduced a substance like CLR into your water system ! Did someone recommend that to you ? Do NOT do it ! While it is advertised to clean coffee pots, and glassware, etc, it won't be possible to flush that system well enough to remove any chance of toxicity.

 

yep that's the valve I released...I think it just made my hot water go away...lol....no I don't want to use the CLR anyway and thanks for the advice on that......I have 2 lines coming out the top...I think that one goes upstairs and one to downstairs...the schematics in amtrol web only show one coming out of the top...I found the water inlet etc.......when I came home the temp was up..I hear the click..I am sure that the system clicks on as well.....

 

OK, but WHERE does the pipe from the SAFETY VALVE GO ?

Those two lines out the top ... one of them comes from the safety valve and is NOT a supply to the house. It should be piped down to the floor and the end of it OPEN so that if the heater gets too hot, or too much pressure, it will open to drain the pressure ... If it goes somewhere inside a wall, I'm afraid that whoever installed it may have piped that discharge pipe from the safety valve into a sewer line ... NOT GOOD IF THEY DID ! Nobody wants a chance of poo-water in their water system !

You need to find out where that pipe is going ... the one off the safety valve on top of the water heater...

 

i'll update photobucket

 

should be able to go in and see now......both go into the wall...I do not see where they would actually drain unless it is below the house on the lower one..but that one actually tees!...the schematic shows that the outlet on top (with the valve) is the hot water outlet...not a drain of sorts...I am sooo confused again......

 

The pipe from that T&P valve on top is called the "BLOW DOWN TUBE" in the Amtrol install manual ... it's not actually drawn on top of the supply, like it really is, but that's what it is ... if it's piped any way but as shown in the install manual, it's in violation of plumbing codes. If it is actually piped into a sewer line, it is REALLY in violation .. it's called a "CROSS CONNECTION" and is absolutely, defiinitely a NO NO NO ...

 

I used to be able to throw a baseball 95 MPH....yes I got paid to do it (not a lot though..minors).....I can hit a golf ball 300....but I cannot figure this out!!!....I am usually very good DIY...........this one scares me because of how complex it all looks!....thanks for all of your help so far!!!

 

just went and looked again and you are right (of course) the top connection above the valve the valve must go to a drain (blow out) so I did just drain my hot water to the curb...I don't know that it drains into sewer..all behind the walls at this point, but I am sure that it passed inspections as it was a custom home.................keep talkin! your making sense so far!

 

I know exactly what you mean ! I ain't as good as I once was ... but I'm as good once as... ohhhh, never mind !

Yeah, that is strange ...

That pipe should go toward the floor and STOP ... open ...

where does the pipe that leads toward the right, off of that tee go ? If I'm guessing right, it leads to the pressure relief valve on the boiler ? that's another big no no ... dangerous too ...

Is that level below ground ? Is it possible they BOTH go to a sewer line ? Or, perhaps they exit through the foundation wall ? What's on the OTHER side of that wall ?

While we are looking at the pictures, you do obviously know that that pipe is leaking down there where you have that aluminum drain pan, right ? That leak should be fixed ...

 

the leak is from a swamp cooler water conx....I will replace valve this spring...didnt; notice it until I I disconnected this fall...can't just disconnect it seeps and leaks, so had to hook it all back up it is connected in line with the cold water inlet...I AM learning a little form the amtrol chematic page 4.........looks like the tee connection goes the other way from the same type valve from the heater system....looks like a blowout connection to the same drain.........wherever that is. I did find the builder of my home...I can ask him where that drains to.........

 

Yeah, good idea ... thing is, since you can't see the end of that pipe , if ANYTHING should happen that causes that pipe to get blocked, AND you have a pressure problem in the boiler or the water heater, AND that pressure has no place to go because it's blocked, the boiler or water heater CAN EXPLODE! It does happen, it has happened, and it will happen again, because an inspector missed something, or got paid off, or whatever ... you don't wanna see what happens when a cast iron boiler explodes ... we're talking MAJOR BOOM !

Ever watch Myth Busters ? Did you see the episode where they blew the water heater up ? uh-huh ... not a good thing at all .

Ya know, even if the end of that pipe were open, just the fact that they have the relief valve from the boiler tee'd into the relief valve from the water heater is reason enough to be rejected for a code violation ... those pipes are supposed to come out of the pressure relief valves, straight down with no obstruction to within 6" of the floor ... shame on the inspector that overlooked that one ...

But, we still haven't gotten to the bottom of the NO HOT WATER issue, have we ?

Let us know what the builder says...

 

actually my daughter just took a shower and said that there was a lot more hot water this time...both legs got shaved!.....don;t know why.........I will investigate the blow out issue..I appreciate your input on that..since the system is basically in the middle of the house, that may be why the assembly drains where it does (wherever that is, but I will find out)...........anything else I should poke, prod, push, or press??

 

I would hope you would be sure, cuz you would be standing right next to the boiler ! kinda hard to miss hearing it turn on ... soooooo, are you SURE sure that the boiler fires up when you turn up the control on the boiler mate ?

If not, then that's what needs to be looked into.

By the way, that leaky connection, the one with the whitish deposits on it, that you said goes to a swamp cooler ? that looks like the pipe leading into or out of the boilermate to/from the boiler ?

Need sleep... b back tmrw ...

 

Not necessarily.

In my area the T&P valve from a water heater is required by code to discharge OUTSIDE the building. Admittedly there are a whole bunch that don't, but the code does require it.

As to the safety valve from a boiler...it CAN have quite a length of piping from the discharge provided that there are no stresses applied to the safety valve itself AND the discharge piping is sized to eliminate "back pressure" that would change the characteristics of the safety valve operation.

The high-temperature (315 degree design temp.) hot water plant I worked in had the safety valves discharging UP through the roof and has an additional twenty to forty feet horizontal piping on the roof.

 

needed sleep too NJ....OK may have found an issue...yes the pipe with the swamp cooler feed tube is the cold water inlet to the tank......I put the dial down waiting and turned it back up..the furnace kicked on after about 1 minute when I put it back up...........now I obviously drained out my hot water when I hit the valve on top....but I put the thermostat dial up to between 4 and 5, close to 5 (out of six)..the point that it clicks (where it is "sensing" the temp I wold guess" is 3.......is my thermostat bad??? maybe corroded since it is on the bottom of the tank?? covered with sediment that I should drain out??...it just seems that it is not reaching temp....

 

Good point about the codes furd ... in my area, a pipe to the outside would be subject to freezing up ... perhaps that's why they don't allow that ? Don't you guyz get freezes up there in the PNW ?

I bet it was a sight to see when one of those relief valves started spewing , eh ?

robby, if you can't get satisfaction from your builder as far as an answer goes about that discharge tube, check with your local code enforcement officials and see what they allow, or don't allow ...

I don't think the thermostat on the boilermate is bad, if it's firing up ... unless... maybe it's not firing up consistently, every time ? Having it 'click' at 3 is about mid-range on the control and probably OK ... it's very possible that the tank does need flushing ... I didn't read that far into the manual to be familiar enough with it to recommend how best to do that, but typically, that drain valve (not the relief valve on top, there should be an actual drain valve on the bottom, with a garden hose connection on it) should be opened on a regular basis as part of routine maintenance. You would be 'shocked and amazed' at the amount of "stuff" that collects in a water heater. I recently helped a friend replace one... afterward, he was curious about what was inside, so he got out his sawzall and cut it open. That 40 gallon water heater what HALF FULL of "stuff" ... a mushy whitish/grayish crystalline substance ... looked like something out of a science fiction movie.

So, if you have never flushed out the boilermate, you may have similar 'crud and corruption' (furd's wurds, technical terms) built up inside, preventing proper heat transfer, and depleting the capacity of the unit.

Be advised though, if you do decide to flush it out now, you may have problems getting the flush valve to stop leaking when you are finished! You may have to replace the valve ...

Ya know, I just thought of something else... very often, when a relief valve is manually operated after a long period of being not opened, it continues to drip, drip, drip... and if you don't know where the end of that pipe is going, how will you know it's leaking ? hmmmmmm..........

 

I just scanned the manual again...

appears as though your model does not have a separate drain valve ... looking at the piping diagrams, it looks as though there should be a drain valve on the cold inlet pipe, along with a shut-off valve upstream. I don't understand how you would actually flush the debris out of this tank if it were piped that way. You need pressure to do that, and if you have to shut off the supply water, where's the pressure going to come from ?

[confused]

Under the troubleshooting section, for 'insufficient hot water' they list one of the causes as a 'fouled heat exchanger' and go on to say to clean it according to the directions below ... but when you look for those directions, they are nowhere to be seen... at least I can't find them !

 

thanks again troop......yes there is a faucet type valve on the bottom...I can always try that and get it out...I may replace the top pressure realease or whatever it is anyway later in the year...from what I did, I did have more hot water this AM...I wish the faucet thingy was bigger to flush the "crud and corruption" out.......oh well....better than nothin......I appreciate your input...........in looking closer at the manual...I think I have all covered well in the system, just may need some tweaking and inspections from a pro.......NOT A DIY ANSWER I KNOW!!!!!!!!...I love to be able to figure out and fix myself and feel like a king in my castle!...electrical and gas scare the beezwax out of me tho........ANYONE KNOW OF OR ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE AMTROL SYSTEM, HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE NM????..........I WILL HELP IN ANY WAY I CAN TO DEFRAY COSTS........I am in paradise hills............anything else you can think of troop or others I would appreciate the input.....thanks to all!!...anyone needs mortgage advice in these days of crazy rates answer here and I will respond without a pitch for me........thanks