Biasi noisy at start

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Old 01-29-08, 09:27 AM
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Biasi noisy at start

Hello all,

Just had a Bias B-10 boiler with a Riello F-3 Burner installed. When the burner ignites ( after about 5 seconds of the blower coming on) it's pretty loud. Almost like a small cannon sound. Is this normal?
 
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Old 01-29-08, 10:33 AM
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So it just booms on ignition? Riellos tend to be noisy but it's a nice noisy but it shouldn't light off hard like that if that's what's happening. Call your installer back...

Was it set up with a combustion analyzer?


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Old 01-29-08, 11:15 AM
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Yes, it's just when the burner lights. It sends a rumble through the house. I'm going to call our local heating installer
 
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Old 01-29-08, 05:42 PM
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I'm gonna go with air in the fuel lines ...

If it was just installed, by all means get him back there, and I would insist that he bring combustion instruments to set it up properly ...

"arghhhhh, that's a SHARP flame ! , as he chews the end of his cigar ... instruments ? I don't need 'em ! I been doin' this for forty years ! ... "
 
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Old 01-29-08, 07:26 PM
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Sounds like delayed ignition, and no it
shouldn't do that!

Pete
 
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Old 02-06-08, 08:08 AM
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ok, so I had my local heating tech come out to check the burner and he says everything is fine. Efficiency is at 84%, CO2 level is good, no smoke....etc.

The tech says that when the burner ignites it is suppose to sound like that. Is this true? It doesn'y exactly sound like a cannon per say, it's more like being next to a car that has a loud bass system blaring and you can feel it in your car. That's how I would describe it. When the burner ignites it sends this thud through the house.

Just as background, our house is all block, including the exterior walls which only enhances the sound.

From when the blower first kicks on to when the burner ignites is about 7 seconds or so. Is that normal?

Everytime I hear the boiler start up I quince waiting for the burner to ignite.

Any info would be appreciated, thanks
 
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Old 02-06-08, 09:26 AM
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The Reillo burner has a prepurge cycle before ignition.
On a boiler demand, the burner motor will start, the air shutter opens, and the burner will run for several seconds before opening the oil valve. This gives a much cleaner burn at startup since the motor and airflow are up to full speed before atomized oil is allowed into the chamber.

If the flame doesn't prove so many seconds afterwards, the primary control will shut the down the burner.
 
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Old 02-06-08, 12:01 PM
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Thanks Radio.

So does what I described sound about right?

My wife is due with our first baby in September and with our house being all block and hardwood floors I am concerned about the noise. I'm thinking of building a small room around the boiler with 2x6'x and R-19 insulation to dampen the sound.
 
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Old 02-06-08, 01:59 PM
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Get a different tech. It shouldn't light off hard with a boom. Somehow it the oil is getting ahead of the ignition. The sound of it starting should be about the same sound as it makes throughout the burn cycle.

You should hear the pre-purge fan sound, and then a steady burn sound. That's it... No booms.
 
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Old 02-06-08, 02:06 PM
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Well, first you said it sounded like a "boom," then
said it didn't, so I am confused. A boom would
indicated delayed ignition, and that is a problem.

Based on your other description of the noise, would
a "rumbling" sound at startup be more accurate? That
still would be a combustion related problem. It could
be a poor draft until the flue warms, a fuel issue etc.
I am not a pro, so it might be a good time for one
of the others to chime in here.

Pete
 
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Old 02-06-08, 03:47 PM
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This "thud" is very typical of burners with pre-purge, it is the rapid expansion of combustion gases at startup. If you hold the draft regulator open during startup you may see that it goes away, and if you hold it closed it will be more pronounced because it has no place to go.

I have seen this on many boilers and the solution is to create an "elephant trunk" by inserting an elbow into the tee that the draft regulator is in pointing downward and then another elbow to bring it back to horizontal, you can then insert the draft regulator into the bottom elbow. This is similar to installing a water hammer arrester on a water pipe that bangs, it creates a cushion for this expansion.
 
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Old 02-06-08, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hello View Post
This "thud" is very typical of burners with pre-purge, it is the rapid expansion of combustion gases at startup. If you hold the draft regulator open during startup you may see that it goes away, and if you hold it closed it will be more pronounced because it has no place to go.

I have seen this on many boilers and the solution is to create an "elephant trunk" by inserting an elbow into the tee that the draft regulator is in pointing downward and then another elbow to bring it back to horizontal, you can then insert the draft regulator into the bottom elbow. This is similar to installing a water hammer arrester on a water pipe that bangs, it creates a cushion for this expansion.
Biasi says a draft regulator isn't needed in their manual--he may not have one. I'm running the same setup with a Reillo and a B-3 Biasi; while I don't hear a thump my Reillo is very noisy, but I suspect that is combustion noise being amplified by my over-sized flue system.

Pete
 
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Old 02-06-08, 04:17 PM
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duiplicate post

15 word makeup: Mary had a little lamb, it's fleas where white as snow.
 
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Old 02-06-08, 04:25 PM
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Not all installations will do this, it has to do with chimney capacity. If there is no draft regulator installed then this may not be fixable. There would be nothing wrong with it just have to learn to live with it.
 
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Old 02-06-08, 04:50 PM
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My system starts with a sorta 'boom' ... well, not a boom ... more like a muffled 'thud'... if you are in the boiler room, you are also treated to the 'bang!' of the draft regulator slamming against the stop ...

I did find that going to 24 gauge flue pipe quieted it down quite a bit. Although somewhat expensive, a double wall flue pipe would further decrease the sound. (might be less expensive than building a box around it, and probably WAY safer!)

an 'elephant trunk' eh ? I'm gonna try that ... thanks Hello!

Psuguy, what type of chimney are you venting into ?

How many elbows are in the flue connector pipe ? (between the boiler and the entrance to the chimney ?)

If you decide to build a box around the boiler, pay strict attention to all clearances to combustibles ! Keep in mind that most of the sound may not be coming from the boiler itself, but rather the flue connector pipe. You also need to be absolutely certain that you are not restricting the inlet air to the burner. I wouldn't recommend this approach...
 
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Old 02-06-08, 05:59 PM
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Thanks for all of the replies. I am venting into a 10" x 10" tile lined chimney. House was built in 1964. There are two elbows on the flue. One where it comes out of the boiler block going up, then one more about 3' above that where the flue turns horizontal ( about 4') to go into the chimney. Flue is all 26 gauge galvenized.

I do have a draft regulator from Biasi. The manual says you may or may not need one so I installed one just to be safe. Heating tech said you should have one.
 
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Old 02-08-08, 07:54 PM
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Elephant Trunk

I'm experimenting with the 'elephant trunk' ... I must say that indeed the start-up noise is quite a bit quieter, and the draft regulator doesn't slam as hard.

Not sure I'm gonna leave it though, as it is quite hideous looking, and I can live with the noise as-is ... but it does seem to work as stated.
 
 

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