keep getting air in my system?


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Old 02-08-08, 02:59 PM
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keep getting air in my system?

i read a post yesterday from another member (2excess) he was having almost the same problem as i am but his seemed alot worse, but his problem is fixed and mine is not. my oil ran low but not out because my oil company didnt deliver my oil, so i had another company bring me oil. a few days later my boiler cut off ( i have the same beckett afg burner with a suntec pump. same as 2excess) i went down monday morning and bled the pump it ran for about 20 hrs then cut of again, i bled the pump again and it ran for 24 hrs this time then shut off again. i went and bought a filter and changed it,but i didnt get any oil to come up to the bleeder on top of the oil filter canister, so i took the filter back down and filled it with oil and started the burner and bled the pump and it ran for 48 hrs this time then shut off. i took the advise of the moderators on this sight and blew the lines clean , put everything back together and it ran for about 36hrs this time and went out again. every time i restart it i have alot of air in the sytem even times when it wasnt taken apart and was just restarted. also i dont have oil flowing out when the line was disconected from the filter housing before or after i blew the lines out and i did have the valve open and the valve does work. the burner and tank were installed new in 01 and have worked flawlessly until now. after reading the advice 2excess got i thought i was in the clear because his system would only run a couple of minutes before shutting down and mine was running for hours. i am stressed! could there be something wrong with the oil? thanks in advance to anyone who might be able to help me.
 
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Old 02-08-08, 05:38 PM
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Let me ask first if you have had yearly 'tune-ups' done on the burner since it was installed in '01 ?

There is also a screen inside the oil pump that may need changing if it hasn't been done recently.

In addition, your nozzle could be partially clogged, and the electrodes may need adjustment.

Might be a weak ignition transformer .

You could have problems as above due to infrequent service to the burner, and compounded by the runout of oil, or it could just be total coincidence that some other factor is involved at the same time...

Regarding nothing flowing when you drop the filter... is the new tank a 'top feed' ? or does the pipe come from the bottom of the tank. If it's a top feeder, you may only get a little bit of oil out, basically what's left in the pipe.

If the burner hasn't been serviced in a while, it's time to have that done first, in order to rule that out as a possible contributing factor.
 
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Old 02-08-08, 05:47 PM
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Can you list what there is in the oil line from the tank to the burner? There may be a check valve or a tiger loop, one pipe, two pipe. Also, tank location and whether the oil line loops overhead or under the floor or. . .

Double check that the valve at the tank is open.


As an example, with the tank in the basement level with the burner, single line, single filter, then oil will pour out of the line when disconnected from the filter.

Add a check valve, or a tiger loop and that will not necessarily occur. If an over head line there may be a leak that is allowing air in.

It may be worth while getting a gauge and checking the vacuum at the pump inlet.

Al.
 
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Old 02-08-08, 06:21 PM
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thanks for the responses. heres the info you guys were asking that i left out, it is a top loader tank with a single line that runs down then under the burner and then up to the filter. both valves are clear i took everthing apart and blew it out, like i said after i bleed it oil comes up and it runs for pretty long periods of time. it has been serviced every year since being installed in 01 and is due to be serviced now but my apointment is not till the end of next week and i want to try and get it running right till they can get here and go over everything. i plan on getting the sceen (strainer) that goes in the pump cover and a new nozzle also tommorrow and putting them in, but would these couple of things contribute to the air bleeding problem, i would think those parts would make it not run or run bad, but could they be causing my problem? also would it run for 24-48 hrs with a weak ignition transformer?
 
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Old 02-09-08, 10:08 AM
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Coincidences ...

OK, maybe I didn't fully understand your problem ...

Your point was that every time the burner locks out, you bleed the pump and get lots of air ? and after bleeding, it starts up and runs fine until the next time ...

yeah, I think that's what yer saying.

Are ALL of the fittings FLARE fittings ? NO compression type?

Is it possible that when you dis-assembled stuff and put back together you introduced an air leak at one of the fittings ?

Air leaks in fuel oil lines can be very difficult to find. You can have a small enough leak that allows air to be pulled in, but not big enough to allow the larger fuel oil molecules out ...

I say install a tiger loop at the burner, convert the pump to two pipe, and flex lines to the tiger loop ...
 
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Old 02-09-08, 12:59 PM
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hi trooper, yes that is the problem i am having. (sorry i idnt explain it a little better)and they are all flare fittings. i was having the problem before i dis assembled all of the lines to blow them out so i dont think i caused a leak. i just got a new strainer , valve and new filer housing they didnt have the nozzle i needed (1.00 80w) in stock, but after talking to the salesman he didnt think the nozzle was the problem anyway. i am going to change these items and redo all of the pipe threads with new dope and check all of the flare fittings. what is a trigger loop and how do i convert the pump to a 2 pipe set up? could you explain it to me and maybe post a few pics. thanks for trying to help me! this is not my feild of work but i know a little to get me by.
 
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Old 02-09-08, 04:22 PM
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Look here for some info on the Tiger Loop fuel oil de-aerator.

Click here

Thing is though, if you've got an air leak in your lines, you should fix that first... this device isn't meant to take out LOTS of air ... the big advantage is that your pump will be 'self-priming' because it's running as a 2 pipe between itself and the Tiger Loop ... then 1 pipe back to the tank.
 
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Old 02-09-08, 06:52 PM
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nj trooper i want to thank you again for your help and advice. i am going to look into installing the tigerloop setup, but for right now i really think i fixed it. as i said in the post above i was going to change the strainer, valve and all fittings, and the oil canister and another new filter, which i did. this is what i found ,all of the fittings and valve were fine(i changed them anyway)i also replaced the older and bigger sid harveys filter that might have not been fully sealing with a new general 1a-25a filter. i took the strainer out of the suntec pump and it was very clean but again i changed it, the straier/cover gasket was a little suspect though. it was very thin and possibly slightly ripped( the seviceman may have not changed the gasket last year ,it looked very old) and last but not least the one fitting going into the stainer cover was a little loose. soon as i got it back together i fired it up and almost instantly when i started to bleed the pump it was straight solid fuel. before when i would bleed it to restart the boiler it never seemed to fully bleed out all of the air it always had some bubbles mixed in when it was going into the bucket. so i will keep you posted but i have a good feeling this time. thanks again
 
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Old 02-09-08, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by milodon View Post
and last but not least the one fitting going into the stainer cover was a little loose.
Good on ya ! It really doesn't take a whole lotta air leak to cause a whole lotta problem!

See how it goes, if no further problems, then why spend the bux on the Tiger ?

Good Luck!
 
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Old 02-09-08, 07:20 PM
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i am not sure if i will put the tiger on, but i read about it off the link you posted and it does seem like a nice system. i quess i am resorting back to my racecar days (always need to upgrade).is it expensive?
 
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Old 02-09-08, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by milodon View Post
my racecar days ....is it expensive?
When I saw yer screen name, I knew you wuz a motorhead!

The standard TL without the spin-on filter is about $80 or so

Standard model

With the spin-on a little more:

With filter

You'll also need a pair of these

and a few fittings ...

but if it won't get a couple tenths shaved off the ET, why bother ?
 
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Old 02-11-08, 06:15 PM
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everythings good!!! over 48hrs and its running like a top (like a 572 inch-b1) . i just went down and cracked open the bleeder and its straight oil. fixed it just in time to ,it was 6 degrees this morning. again i would to thank nj trooper and everyone on the sight for taking their time to help me and everyone else out with great advice and their experience. everyone knows how lonely it is when you have a problem and cant find someone to help you out, these guys are there for you and ask for nothing in return. theres not many people like that around anymore. so dont forget to thank them for the help they give because they dont have to do it, but its nice that they do! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
 

Last edited by milodon; 02-11-08 at 06:43 PM.
 

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