i have a hydronic boiler and i'm rewiring the zone valves, or what powers them. it seems to be working, but the 120/24v transformer is too hot to touch. it's a long story but i ended up supplying both circuits of two 'pop top actuators' to one transformer. that fried it. i disconected. it still provides 24v to the motor part of the actuators, but is hot when the thermostat is on. i'm gonna replace it but i would love some insight on this. the second circuit is now on a relay? and is working. this relay used to be connected to the basement zone, but this basement zone still works without this relay, so i'm puzzled as to what they do besides provide 24v.


zone valve actuators
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1135.jpg
hot transformer
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1143.jpg
relay?
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1149.jpg

thanks in advance

 

Once I saw that fancy 'designer' discharge chute for the safety relief valve, I remembered that boiler ! Don't remember what your original problem was though, something to do with the expansion tank ? pressure ? ... anyway, how's that part working ?

What's your goal ? I mean, what are you trying to do as far as re-wiring the valves ?

Can you sketch up and scan or photograph the sketch, the way it's wired ? Might help grok.

 

hi NJ.
yeah, i extended the relief valve like you said, to within 3in of the floor i think. much better like this, although i don't understand how you could know this.
you're right, my boiler was making crazy noises, at the beginning of winter. it's been better since, because i'm keeping the supply water off to keep the pressure low12-15psi, and manualy adding water here and there. this has also stopped water for escaping from the relief valve, but it will continue if i turn on the supply water and the pressure is at 22psi. i suppose i should change the auto water feeder, but this one is new, so i'm afraid i'll get the same results if i change it. could this new part have been defective? is it adjustable?
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1161.jpg
i'm thinking some of the noise could be air in the pipes, but i have automatic float vents that are supposed to take care of this.
anyways, this was about wiring. my goal now is to learn more about wiring the actuators, or zone valves. make sure it's done alright. all was working fine, but i had to move two boxes i've been calling relays to insulate. one relay was supplying low voltage to my basement zone, which has a high voltage thermostat, an actuator, and a transformer. the other one, i thought, was disconected so i removed it to simplify things, but i found out it was suppling 24v to the pair of actuators that supply the two other zones in my house, controlled by low voltage thermometers. it looked disconected and older than the other relay, so i though the previous owners hadn't bothered to physicaly remove it. i've put things back together but the basement zone no longer has one of these relays, yet it works fine without it. the other pair of actuators are electricaly supplied by a transformer, and the relay that used to be connected to the basement zone. the other relay that i originaly thought was useless is no longer connected.
here's a diagram of the wiring to the pair of actuators that control my 1st and 2nd floors, the way it is now.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1150-1.jpg
this is the basement zone. it's no longer conected to the relay but still works.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1153.jpg
everything seems to be working well, but i'm curious as to why the basement zone is working without the relay. what does this relay do? is that the right name? why i fried a transformer when i connected all 4 wires of the actuators to one transformer? what's the right way to have this set up?
sorry if this is confusing. let me know how i can be more precise.
thanks. glad to see people are still here.

 

Not a hard boiler to forget! First time I ever saw a fancy expensive wine container used as a 'chute' for a relief valve!

Just to get the whole picture clear, after this, each relay box has one circulator wired to each, and there are wires going from the relay boxes to the same point on the boiler, yes ?

OR...

maybe there is one circulator wired to the aquastat on the boiler ? I think I only saw one circ ? ...

At least that's the way it looks to me as how it would be wired.

If so, then what you've drawn should work ...

On the one drawing, in the lower left, the squiggly line means those wires are disconnected ? and the zone still works ? When you say works, you mean you would get heat in that zone... but, what would happen if you turned the thermostat with two zone valves all the way down. Then turn the other one UP... would the boiler fire ? Circulator run ? I'm guessing it won't ... I think that zone is 'riding' the other zones heat calls. That zone valve would still open, and just stay open until the other zone called, then both zones would get heat. I think that's what's happening, because with that second relay disconnected, it won't fire the boiler. (I think)

The devices you call ACTUATORS, let's call them ZONE VALVES. There is one pair of wires on those connected to the END SWITCH. The other pair is connected to the motor side. The motor is powered by 24VAC, and the END SWITCH is just a switch that closes when the zone valve opens to tell the boiler to fire.

I look at the pics again and notice that there are no wires on the X X terminals on that one relay ... in that case, all bets are off ... I dunno ...

can you show us how this stuff is wired to the circ and the boiler ?

Be careful with that old rubber /cloth insulated BX cable. That stuff can short out at the connector if the wires are moved around too much. If the insulation is all dry and crumbly, think about replacing the hunk of cable...

 

well that champagne tin served me well, but it no longer helps out my boiler. here an updated pic
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1163-1.jpg

i believe i have the second option. i have one large circulator (pump) on the boiler inlet, next to the aquastat and lwco on the boiler outlet. these items seem unconnected electricaly to the zone valves and relay. unless i'm missing a line behind the wall behind the boilers, which i might take out(the wall) to figure this out. the circulator is always on, which seems strange to me. is it normal to have the circulator running when the zone valves are closed?
the boiler doesn't fire when you touch the thermostat, it fires when the boiler temp goes down to 160F, which like you siad is a reaction to the thermostat opening the zone valves, but so the boiler/circ isn't connected electricaly to the relay box/zonevalves/transformers. pics might help. maybe not
boiler:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1062.jpg
basement zone:
HV themostat. the switch is the power for the boiler, universal control, circ., lwco, aquastat.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1167.jpg
zone valve and transformer(basement). power is from a different breaker than the boiler.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1146.jpg
other zones
pair of zone valves to the left, powered by the transformer and relay to the right, which may or may not be working.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1170.jpg
that relay used to be connected to the zone valve for the basement zone, but are now dangling. i could be wrong about this, but i'll know once i get into the walls. the pair of zone valves (L1, L2) now use this relay, but used to use a different relay not pictured, which is not being used at all.
sorry if i repeat myself, or if am not being clear enough. hard to tell after a while.

the basement zone apears to be working fine not connected to the relay. you're right, that is what the squigly line like on my drawing means. yet the pipes become hot almost instantly after turning up the thermostat. it's a high voltage therm, so that may be why this zone doesn't need a relay, and it was hooked up improperly by the PO. the other zone, or the pair of zone valves use a low voltage thermostat. the motor parts are connected to a transformer(24v) and this lv thermostat. the end switch is connected to the relay box. i don't know what the X X terminals are. i have one wire at G and one at R. nothing on C. there are an unconnected W and a Y on the cover box. here a pic.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1169.jpg

i was gone this weekend, and now this relay box is buzzing a bit. also i can't get a 24v reading from the G and R terminals now. is it shot? the zone valves are still opening and closing normaly, i think. what does this relay box do?

i apreciate the warning about old BX, (next to the relay , right? it is condemned. i could start a new forum on the electrical disasters i've found in this basement since buying this old house last summer. you name it, i found it. anyways, that BX was connected to this relay, but the relay was powered by some new romex. the other end (of BX) went underground to the neighbors house where the boiler was up until last year. (the PO owned both houses). so i wanted to take out this unnecessary cable, which led me to rewire everything, which led me he. glad to be here, BTW. thanks for the info/support group.

 

Tellya the truth... that whole thing could really use to be re-wired ...

What is the model of the boiler ? Do you have a manual ? Is there a schematic ?

Follow the circulator wire ... where does it go ?

 

are you serious ? BX underground ? c'mon ...

I was talking about replacing some/all of the BX around the boiler.

Once you start 'messin' with that old stuff, the dry crumbly rubber insulation breaks away, usually right around where the cable goes through the connector. SPARK!

I would use only MC (modern BX) / not NM ...

It's not that hard to work with as you might think. You can buy cutters that work real well. A few twists and there ya go ...

Make sure to use "anti-short bushings" always...

 

you're in right, a full rewiring might be in order. that's why i'd like to figure out precisely how each component works.or is supposed to work. otherwise i would probably leave it alone now that the system seems to be working fine. once i have a better grasp on things i'd like to add a second thermostat to the 'pair' of zone valves so i can control all 3 zones independently. the relay boxes are what's confusing me.

but yes it might be time for some schematics. i have a Laars-Teledyne D-JVS-125-C. i have no manual, and their web site is under construction. i'll see what i can find. the circulator cable goes to the 'control panel' on the front of the boiler, and is on full time. is that that normal? i'd love to change it so that it only turns on when it needs to be on, but i'm also reluctant to mess with the only part of my system that seems solid. i can draw out the wiring if it sounds like something is off. let me know

about the old cables...everything you see around the boiler is NM. if you see some BX it's only there for decor. this boiler was installed last summer by pro's before i bought the house. i think they did a good job with the boiler/circ/lwco/aquastat/universal control, but i suspect they did a rush job with the zone valves/transformers/relay area where they patched in some new with some old.

this is a pic the stuff that goes underground to the neighbors'. hot water return and supply, some BX and 2 non-armored cables for good measure. (all condemned now)
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1175.jpg

 

sorry, i meant MC. the old BX is still there just to impress.
there is some 'new' NM that supplies my relay and transformer for the zone valves, but i didn't put it in.

 

Is this your boiler ?

Laars website

 

Looking at the schematic in that manual, it appears that if it's wired correctly, the circ should only run on a heat call.

 

Let's start with the basics:

If you had no relays, and only one thermostat, and one zone, the thermostat wires would be wired to the boiler directly to the R and W terminals in the control panel.

When the thermostat makes contact across R and W, the boiler would run...

Your system appears to be a mixture of old and new... your installers seem to have cut some corners and left the old relays in place, then fooled around with the wiring until they got it 'working' ... so I can't be certain about anything I'm saying, only guesses... I suspect that the old system MAY have been zoned with circulators, or there were extra circulators used to pump to the other connected house.

When a relay is used, the thermostat would now connect to the relay to trigger it, and the outputs of the relays would be used to run circulators, AND a set of wires would run to the boiler to turn it on.

I believe that the best solution for your situation would be to 'start fresh' ... remove the relays and associated wiring... install a Zone Control panel, and rewire the zone valves to it.

Take a look at this:

Zone Control Panels

If you used one of these, you could easily add another thermostat and separate those two valves that are wired together. You would also get rid of the line voltage thermostat in the basement, and replace that with a 24V model.

 

thanks trooper.

the boiler on the link is very similar. i'll look into it more. i was looking for laars teledyne and not laars.

about the circ...i knew it shouldn't be on full time. the tech said it was better this way so that the pipes wouldn't freeze. i suppose a zone control panel would be able to control that too. either way, sounds like a summer job, which is still far away here in quebec. just to make sure, i have a tjernlund UC1 universal control. that's completely different, right? that just controls the blower?

about the relay...i disconnected it today, as a test and because it was buzzing, and i couldn't get a 24v reading from it. everything still work. is seems like they were doing nothing at all. like you say, the techs must have attached every extra wires to any remaining terminal once the install was done.

a 'fresh start' sounds good, and looking too deeply into the way it was hooked up makes less and less sense, but right now, i have no relays. above you say that if i had no relays, the therm. would be hooked up directly to the boiler R and W, but these two are connected together. my zone valve are independent (electricly) from the boiler, and the aquastat seems to control the firing of the boiler. i suppose this doesn't really matter since it works, but i'm curious because this is contrary to everything i've seems in this forum...i think

 

Here's the thing though... you've got zone valves... when the valves are closed, the circulator is doing what ? Trying to pump into a 'dead head' ! With the ZVs closed, there's going to be little flow anyway...

My opinion is that the tech either couldn't, or didn't want to take the time to figure out the proper way the boiler should be wired, and just wanted to get out of there, so he slapped a jumper on it and fed you a line, then ran to his truck and floored it ... has he been back ?

Did you contract the installation ? was that tech the installing contractor ?

Are your pipes running through an area that might cause them to be prone to freezing ?

The Tjerlund is a 'power venter' ... does _IT_ also run full time ?

I'm puzzled by the fact that you say the R and W on your boiler are JUMPERED ? I don't know what to think about that... If that boiler is wired up to run continuously, with only the aquastat in control... well, to me that sounds just plain wrong... talk about wasting energy ... are your gas bills through the roof ? I don't imagine that running that big ole B&G circ is easy on the electric either ...

Does the circulator turn off when you remove the R / W jumper ?

 

the story with the tech is complicated because they were paid by the PO to install, and are not to happy about coming back. (7k to move the boiler here from next door). earlier this winter, i had him come back because of no heat, and he came and adjusted the cycle and heat came back. then another time he touched a jumper above R & W. (loose connection). i'm glad he helped but he made it clear i was cut off now. he was the head guy but didn't do the install. anyway i don't think i want them back now that i know more about all this.

i loosened the R and heard a relay click inside the panel, but went no thurther. i did not turn off the circ.

i understand how the relays and end switches work now. feels good.

about the circ. i probably have pipes in cold zones, but i'm working on that. but like you say, it makes no difference because the zone valves are closed.
one hesitation is if turning it on and off repeatedly might damage it? especially with 3 zones
why would the circ on all the time send my gas bills through the roof? elec. for shure. BYW gas$400 one month. $40 the next. i did do some weatherproofing, but come on. not sure what to expect next month
i think i should still do it. i figure i can connect all three end switches to T T on a relay, and the 120V (red line) to the circ.

 

Also,

the power venter turns on only when the boiler fire.

i see what you're saying about the high gas bills. the boiler is ON continuously, and fires when it goes down to 160. i remember being suspicious about this a while ago, and forgetting about it. the tech said that this was normal. is it normally supposed to cool down to zero if there is no call for heat?

 

I think that's a typo above, where you said "i did not..." you meant ' IT did not... ' correct ? If the circulator did not stop running when you removed that jumper, then they've got the wiring inside the control panel all bollixed up too... it SHOULD have shut the circ down also.

Take a look at your gas bill. See if it says "ESTIMATED" bill on the 400 one ... I suspect that one was estimated, and they corrected the second one.

This concerns me... does the venter turn on FIRST, and THEN the burner fires ? That's how it is supposed to work. If they come on AT THE SAME TIME, it means that they don't have the PROVING SWITCH wired correctly. It further means that if the venter fails, you could possibly have CARBON MONOXIDE spilling into the home. Do you have CO detectors ? If not, PLEASE install them !

I'm not sure I would recommend that.

Your system is all beeped up. I don't know what those knuckleheads were thinking, but it wasn't right.

What you need to do is find a QUALIFIED TECH, who UNDERSTANDS wiring. The boiler should be re-wired according to the factory schematic. There should be a proper boiler demand wired to the R and W terminals. The power venter should be wired properly. I would ask them to install a zone control panel as below, replace the line voltage t'stat in the basement with a low voltage model. Add a third t'stat to control that 'extra' zone.

And never call those beeping knuckleheads again. I sure hope you have more than one boiler repair company in your area !



When any one or a multiple of thermostats call for heat, the respective zone valve shall operate. When the valve opens, it will send the signal for the boiler to fire. The circulator shall be wired properly to the boiler and will run when there is a boiler demand from the panel. The power venter wiring shall be properly integrated with the boiler controls.

 

yes, i meant 'it' did not shut off. sorry, it's amazing how many typo's i make considering how slow i type. the circ appears to be wire to a 120v line, using the boiler as a junction box.

the blower turns on before the boiler, and stays on longer. i think they got that part right. i'll buy a CO2 detected regardless. you'd think they would have put one in, or at least recomended i get one.

my techs are the most reputable in town. i beleive they're sub-contracted by the BIG gas company. if funny, actually. the gas company did a final inspection. the guy couldn't have been more than 16.

the zone control panel looks like a good approach. thanks for the diagram. clears things up. it's not as expensive as i imagined.

let me confirm something here. is the boiler supposed to cool down to zero as long as there is no call for heat?

thanks again for all your help. i should have a word with this boiler company now that i'm empowered with all this knowledge.

 

Well... ZERO I dunno ... but with no call for heat, it will cool to room temp anyway . The boiler should only fire when there is a call for heat from a t'stat.

In that drawing, where the wires go to R and W, I believe if you go with something like this, those wires will go to the UC-1, and then a pair of wires from the UC-1 will go to R and W.

That white jumper though... not sure about that, hopefully when/if I get a schematic (see below) ... I'll know more.

Laars was acquired by Bradford White in 2005, that's why you can't find info when you look for Teledyne-Laars ...

The documents on their website are not exactly for your boiler model. There are two links, one for the JVT and JVS models (yours), and one for the JVi, which is an induced draft model (built in power venter). BOTH links point to the JVi ... I emailed them to see if I could get a schematic for your model, as it will be different than the "i" model. Let ya know when/if I get an answer.

It's pretty scary when the only game in town don't know the rules, ain't it ?

 

i'd be kind of afraid to touch the UC1, without boiler schematics. they really went in there. i'll show you how they wired the UC1.

UC1
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1192-1.jpg

boiler
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1190.jpg

in the UC1:
red is in 1
Yellow is in 2
White is in 4
in the boiler:
the gauge of wire they used is much smaller than the boilers lines.
red goes to the 'brown box' with 2 terminals on it.
white is capped off
yellow splits. another yellow goes to the white jumper, above the R W A. the other to a transformer.
oh wait, looks like yellow's not doing too good. the rubber is damaged and i can see some copper. there goes my hopes of not "touching"
note:when the tech came in nov. and touched a white wire to restart the boiler, it was that 'white jumper'

i have a tentative plan if i don't go through the UC1, and wait a bit to get a zone control
here's a diagram.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1187-1.jpg
if you didn't recomend using ZV endswitches to start/stop the circ, you probably don't like this either, but would it work?

 

I see how they've got the UC-1 wired... and it's "OK" ... sort of ... I mean at least it's doing what it's supposed to be doing.

The "brown box" with two terminals on it is your limit switch. The brown wire that is connected to the white wire used to go to the terminal that the red wire is on.

That is your "intercepted heat call".

When the limit switch closes, it sends 24VAC up the red wire to the UC-1 to signal a heat call.

The UC-1 starts the venter, proves the fan, and then when it's happy, sends the 24VAC back down the white wire to fire the burners.

The yellow wire is the 24VAC 'common'.

So, like I said, it's "OK"...

Your plan:

Won't work... but it shows you are thinking! On the right track.

You don't _need_ the zone control panel, it does make it much easier to wire everything up... much cleaner install, but you could do without it.

The only flaw in your plan is connecting the relay and the boiler R/W together. Both devices contain a 24VAC transformer, and your method would connect the secondaries of the two transformers in parallel. If connected 'out of phase' one or both transformers will burn up. If connected 'in phase' it _MAY_ operate, but if the transformer voltages are not exactly the same, you may still burn one or both transformers.

There is a relay in the boiler control panel that is already wired up to switch the circulator.

Take a set of pictures showing the entire control panel, and let me see where the circulator wiring is. We may be able to tell where the circulator is _supposed_ to be wired, and correct that.

Then, if you wire the ZV end switches to the boiler R/W by themselves, when the end switches on the ZVs make, the boiler will fire, and the relay in the boiler panel will run the circ. No need for an external relay if there's already one for the purpose in the boiler panel.

I remember now when you told us in an old thread about the tech 'touching' the white wire... that jumper appears to be a connection point for a damper or power venter. They probably didn't have the mating plug when they did the install, so spliced the UC-1 internally...

BUT, if he just touched it, and it ran, it indicates that there is a bad connection inside that plug/connector. It's only a matter of time before it causes problems again. We'll get to that later...

 

hi

not sure you'll be able to make out anything here.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1194.jpg

some details
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1196.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1197.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1198.jpg

basicaly, the hot wire splits.
one goes to the circ.
two go to the LWCO. one on H terminal. one on P1.
also, the black wire from the transformer in the boiler control goes to the aquastat. the second aquastat wire is connected to terminal P2 (LWCO)

here's the schematics for the LWCO
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1195.jpg

thanks for the transformer warning. that would have made it cold in here

 

OK mon ami, good pics... I can _almost_ see everything I need to see. Hopefully tomorrow Laars will respond to my email and I can get a definite on some things I think I already know.

On the side of the relay, there is a label ... no, not that big red one! I think it's an R8222C 1014 , is that correct ?

You see those two terminals on the right side of the relay that have no wires on them ? That's where the connections for the circulator were. There's a grommet below the transformer that the two wires used to go through. That circulator wiring needs to be replaced... The hot (Black) wire to the circ needs to go on one of those terminals and a black wire from the 120V feed to the panel needs to go to the other. Do that and the circulator will only run when R and W are 'made' ... you will need some STRANDED wire and a couple push on connectors ... never use solid wire on a crimp type lug ...

more tomorrow...
bonne nuit!

 

close. 1016. that's only a difference of 2. sounds like you've got it figured out though.

sounds good. i'll find the right wires&crimps.

i can take more pics if needed.

so then i connect the end switches to R and W, and i'm good to go?

merci, a demain

 

i wired the circ to the relay in the boiler control box. looks like it works. the circ shuts down when i remove the R W jumper.
there's a hum coming from the LWCO. is that normal?

the more i think about it, dumber it sounds to have the boiler always hot. especialy now that spring is coming and it really only needs to be ON at night.

 

Laars sent me the PDF file ...

I've clipped out the circ wiring which is as I suspected the same as the JVi model.

Is this how you wired it ?



This PDF manual is for much newer boiler than yours, and has some additional safety controls, but will serve the purpose.

PM me with an email addy and I'll shoot it off to ya ...

 

I don't think so... there's really nothing in there that should be humming ... lemmee look at the schematic again ...

On second thought, there is probably a transformer and some electronics in there ...

Think it's been doing that all along and you just now noticed it ? Maybe you can teach it the words ?

 

i think it's always been there. just could not hear it with the circ on. yeah, it's the transformer inside the LWCO. it's not particularly hot to the touch, and it stops 'singing' when if press on it.

pretty sure my circ is wired like it is in the diagram. all good. just have to connect to the ZV's.

 

me again.
i tried to connect my zv end switches to the R W terminals on my boiler with no result. i checked the end switch and they are on even when the thermostat is off. i tested them with a battery and voltmeter and they 'close' the circuit even when the zv's are off/closed.
could it be the end switches are faulty? this could be an explanaton as to why the previous tech's wired my boiler/circ to be on 24/7. this solution would have been cheaper (for them) than to replace the ZV's.
thanks

 

i did another test. since my two ZV's are wired to the same T-stst, the end switches are also wired together. i seperated the two end switches from each other and did the battery test on each. one was closed and one was open (with thermostat off). so it seems to me one of the end switched works, one doesn't. i guess i'll connect the end switch that works to the R and W terminals on the boiler. i think this should work as long as i keep both ZV's controlled by one t-stat.

 

that was it. one end switch was faulty. the one that works is now telling my boiler/circ to turn on/off.

 

Good thinking G ! yeah, no reason to have both endswitches connected if the motors are in parallel... but, you might wanna take a look and see if that valve is working. Maybe it's hanging open ?

 

thanks trooper. i must admit i'm proud of my troubleshooting on this one.
however, after one cycle, when the ZV's closed and the boiler/circ shut down, i heard some new noises coming from the ZV's. they've always closed almost silently, but here i had some mix of 'gurgling' and possibly a mechanical noise. i couldn't tell if it came from the pipes or the ZV's. nothing major, but definately a new noise. it frightened me enough to unplug the end switch and jumper the R W. i'm thinking it's just water in the system, and my reaction was a tad paranoid. wondering what you make of this.

the've always closed well, i think. the pipes would get cold if the thermostat was down, and the boiler was still hot.

 

the 'gurgling' has stopped, so never mind my last post.
thanks

 

No it hasn't ... there's still two bottles left !

If there's air moving around in the system, now it's time to start looking at bleeding that out ... I don't see an automatic air vent anywhere in your pics. Take a look at the radiators upstairs and see if you can find any air bleeds. If you heard gurgling once, you will probably hear it again. Either that, or the air will get trapped in the high spots in the piping, and will air lock the zone.

By the way, that thermostat pic you posted... with the cover off ... that anticipator setting looks awfully high to me. Which t'stat is that, the one connected to the two zone valves ? or the basement ?

Great progress so far ! Good on ya!

 

yeah, i'm extremely pleased with the progress. so's the woman.

but it's time for some bleeding/purging now. i was going to ask when the time was right. when the installers first started up the system, they seemed to have a hard time getting all the air out, so they put some 'automatic float vents' everywhere and took off.(watts FV-4M) 1 in the 2nd floor zone, and 3 in the 1st flr zone. these two zones are what my 'double' ZV's control.

curious about how well these work, and if/how i can still bleed/purge the system.

i also have these. they are placed above the boiler inlet and outlet, where the pipes turn from vert. to horiz.

notice one has a 'plug', one doesn't.
this is in the basement, but i can't find anything to vent the basement zone.

also, i found these laying around


Another thing. a few months ago, my presure releif valve used to spit out water. i 'band-aided' the problem by keeping my feed water line off. it keeps the pressure low and works, but i know now i need to replace my expansion tank. i used to think the problem was that my pressure reducing valve was set too high, because the ET schreader valve read 15psi and no water came out. after reading countless posts where you tell people you can't get a true reading if there is pressure in the boiler, i realized i was wrong. now there IS water in the ET air part. so, my question is should i hold off on the bleeding until i replace my tank? also, i realize i should have done this a long time ago, but can it wait another week or two so i can order this online? there's a huge price difference. or am i asking for trouble just to save a few bucks?

it controls the two ZV's, not the basement. should i adjust it? at the beginning of the winter, the boiler would not fire. the tech came over and adjusted this anticipator, told me not to touch it, and took off. i worked, so i have thought about it since.

the inlaws are coming tomorrow. they hated this boiler, so i owe you big time.

 

pics again:

float vents:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1204.jpg

above boiler:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1200.jpg

things laying around:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1202-1.jpg

 

Anticipator:

With that t'stat running two zone valves, it may not actually be that far off. Yeah, leave it alone. Someday you may want to replace it with a programmable, and the new electronic t'stats generally don't have anticipator settings... they 'learn' the proper settings over a period of time, so don't worry about it.

Air vents:

While I generally don't like automatic vents hidden away in baseboards because they can leak undetected for a long time before being noticed, in your case since you don't have an 'air scoop' on the boiler I guess it's OK. Just look at them from time to time to make sure not leaking. Those caps on top have to be loose for the air to escape. What you can do is leave them loose for a while, then when all the air is out, close them down so not to worry about leaks. Then you can open them when needed, occasionally, to let any air out.

The ones on top of the boiler are likely not doing a whole lot, but they really can't hurt. Again, make sure the caps are loose. You can leave those loose, because you will likely notice if they start leaking.

Those small ones are the manual bleeds that would typically be used on the baseboards.

Let the system run and the air should all eventually work it's way out one of the vents.

ET:

If you've got water out the schrader valve, the tank is toast for sure. As long as you've got the pressure under control for now, and the relief valve isn't blowing, I see no reason to not order on-line and save a few bucks. Before you drain the boiler, close those valves above so that you don't drain the whole system, and then only drain just enough to change the tank. You should be able to leave the boiler full, and just drain enough to empty those pipes.

When you replace the tank, install a ball valve in the line to the tank in place of that coupler that's there now. You might also consider something like this so that you can let the pressure off the tank before removing, or for checking adjusting the pressure in the tank.



Hook a hose to the drain, close the valve, open the drain, et voila, no pressure on water side of tank, and boiler still full... you don't need that extra pressure gauge, that's just for looks, and because it's easier for my old eyes to see. It was an 'add-on' after the fact (and pay no attention to the fact that it only reads 10 PSI !).

So, a tee with a drain, and a ball valve in that line to the tank.

And given the way it's mounted, the brick underneath supporting it is a good idea!