ball valve stuck open
#1
03-13-08, 12:05 PM
ball valve stuck open
hi
i need to replace my ET. problem is the ball valve for the boiler inlet in difficult to close. the outlet ball valve is smooth. i figure i should eventualy replace it, but i feel i should wait until spring to completely drain the system. does anyone strongly object to me forcing this ball valve shut? i'm concerned that if i do this, it won't reopen, or it will release little bits of metal that will break something down the line.
thanks
i need to replace my ET. problem is the ball valve for the boiler inlet in difficult to close. the outlet ball valve is smooth. i figure i should eventualy replace it, but i feel i should wait until spring to completely drain the system. does anyone strongly object to me forcing this ball valve shut? i'm concerned that if i do this, it won't reopen, or it will release little bits of metal that will break something down the line.
thanks
#2
03-13-08, 03:37 PM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
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I'm not real good with geography but I think you are a couple of thousand miles from me so, no, I don't have any strong objections to your forcing the valve shut.
How big is this valve and is it a threaded valve into steel pipe or is it threaded with adapters to copper pipe or maybe even just soldered to copper pipes with no threads?
It may be best to not reef too hard on the valve handle but instead to cool the boiler and reduce the pressure to zero and then work really fast to remove the expansion tank and install a ball valve there before replacing the expansion tank.
Maybe with a picture of the valve I would have something to add. Be sure to have a close-up picture and one from far enough away to see the entire piping arrangement of this valve.
How big is this valve and is it a threaded valve into steel pipe or is it threaded with adapters to copper pipe or maybe even just soldered to copper pipes with no threads?
It may be best to not reef too hard on the valve handle but instead to cool the boiler and reduce the pressure to zero and then work really fast to remove the expansion tank and install a ball valve there before replacing the expansion tank.
Maybe with a picture of the valve I would have something to add. Be sure to have a close-up picture and one from far enough away to see the entire piping arrangement of this valve.
#3
03-13-08, 08:18 PM
it's just soldered to copper pipe.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1181-1.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1182-1.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1179-1.jpg
btw, to solder on a new ball valve, should i remove the inerds first? i've made that mistake on small gate valves before.
thanks
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1181-1.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1182-1.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...IMG_1179-1.jpg
btw, to solder on a new ball valve, should i remove the inerds first? i've made that mistake on small gate valves before.
thanks
#4
03-14-08, 07:17 PM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
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I don't like soldered in valves. I far prefer to use threaded adapters and unions.
I have no idea of how one could remove the guts of a ball valve, solder the body into the piping and then replace the guts. A ball valve disassembles through the end.
You could probably get away with using a "cheater" on the handle of your uncooperative valve and persuading it to close and then later re-open without any serious problems this one time. If you do I would suggest that you change all three of the ball valves this summer for threaded valves, adapters and unions. I would prefer to see a globe valve rather than the ball valve in that bypass piping.
I have no idea of how one could remove the guts of a ball valve, solder the body into the piping and then replace the guts. A ball valve disassembles through the end.
You could probably get away with using a "cheater" on the handle of your uncooperative valve and persuading it to close and then later re-open without any serious problems this one time. If you do I would suggest that you change all three of the ball valves this summer for threaded valves, adapters and unions. I would prefer to see a globe valve rather than the ball valve in that bypass piping.
#7
03-15-08, 06:57 AM
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The valve can be opened in the middle, you can see the seam (some corrosion there) where the two sections were screwed together. All of the sliding contact areas are teflon--the valve shouldn't stick. The only problem with forcing it is that you may snap the brass insert that goes between the internal ball and the threaded end which the handle attaches to. You could try removing the handle, and releasing the nut on the shaft which sets the pressure for the telfon shaft seal to see if that is area where the binding is occurring.
I'd be tempted to "reverse" the mounting of the handle to permit an attempt to try moving the valve in the other direction. Changing the handle's mounting, and going back and forth gently, will be better than continually forcing in one direction if it stuck completely.
The manufacturers do recommend a procedure for soldering, I don't remember if it is open or shut, the idea is to protect the teflon seals from warping. Do a Google search for that one.
Pete
I'd be tempted to "reverse" the mounting of the handle to permit an attempt to try moving the valve in the other direction. Changing the handle's mounting, and going back and forth gently, will be better than continually forcing in one direction if it stuck completely.
The manufacturers do recommend a procedure for soldering, I don't remember if it is open or shut, the idea is to protect the teflon seals from warping. Do a Google search for that one.
Pete
#8
03-15-08, 09:15 AM
I usually wrap a wet rag around valves to draw the heat from the guts when sweating ...
judging by the amount of spilled solder that can be seen on the flanges of the circulator, etc , I'm not sure it wasn't the installers first try at sweating pipe ... (if it was you, sorry for the flame! (pun intended))
I wonder if when the handle is off, and the packing nut is loosened if it would be worthwhile to try spraying a bit of silicone based lubricant on the shaft... ?
judging by the amount of spilled solder that can be seen on the flanges of the circulator, etc , I'm not sure it wasn't the installers first try at sweating pipe ... (if it was you, sorry for the flame! (pun intended))
I wonder if when the handle is off, and the packing nut is loosened if it would be worthwhile to try spraying a bit of silicone based lubricant on the shaft... ?
#9
03-15-08, 11:59 AM
i took off the handle, and the valve will easily turn in the opposite direction (counter-clockwise) but still not in the normal direction, handle direction. (clockwise). i did the same operation on a valve that was laying around. (it's at times like these i'm glad i never through anything out). the reverse direction seems to close the ball all the same, so i'll just do that until i drain the system for more important reasons.
no, i'm not responsible for all the solder. the pros did that. (sorry pros, i'm sure some of you are very good. i'll bet if you're reading this, you're one of the good ones). i had solder chip off when i removed the handle. the outlet valve that closes is clean, so i think we all know what happened here.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1184.jpg
no, i'm not responsible for all the solder. the pros did that. (sorry pros, i'm sure some of you are very good. i'll bet if you're reading this, you're one of the good ones). i had solder chip off when i removed the handle. the outlet valve that closes is clean, so i think we all know what happened here.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/IMG_1184.jpg
#10
03-15-08, 02:26 PM
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Neither gate valves nor ball valves are designed for throttling service and will eventually wear (erode). Gate valves are usually worse for several reasons including the gate is a usually brass or bronze, a softer metal than the stainless steel ball of a ball valve.
The globe valve IS made for throttling service. Be sure to use a globe valve that has a metal seat and disc, not the common water service valve that uses a "composition" disc with metal seat. You will likely need to go to a full-service plumbing supply to get the proper globe valve.
The globe valve IS made for throttling service. Be sure to use a globe valve that has a metal seat and disc, not the common water service valve that uses a "composition" disc with metal seat. You will likely need to go to a full-service plumbing supply to get the proper globe valve.
