Hi there... new here, but here it goes.

I have a Smith boiler, fuel oil fired that feeds hot water baseboard heat that is zoned into 5 circulator pump zones, with hot water being the priority zone. The unit is vented out of the side of the house with a power vent. All were installed in 2000 when the house was built. The boiler is serviced regularly.

I have been working on this for most of the day and thought I had the issue narrowed down to the control unit for the zones.

The control unit for the is an Argo ARM866DP. There are 120 V coming into the unit (verified), but there are 0 V coming out of the Isolated Switch (XX), even when zones are calling. I have also verified that 120 V is coming from each zone when calling.

I swapped and relays thinking that might be it, but no change.

There is no power getting to the Honeywell control on the boiler itself. None of the resets are tripped (boiler or power vent) and there is power coming from the breaker.

What will currently happen is that the zone will call, the circulater pump will run, but the boiler never even attempts to fire, as there is no power getting to it.

Thinking that I would beat this thing on a Friday afternoon before things closed up I purchased and installed a new switching relay control and installed it as the folks at Argo told me that it must be the board. Not the case... after install I have the exact same problems.

I'm just about to pick up the phone for help... any thought would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ben

 

Your Argo is operating as it should ...XX is a "dry contact" there is no current there ....it is only a switch that tells the Honeywell control to turn on the boiler.....I would look to the Honeywell control for your problem......What control is it?

 

It reads...
Honeywell Aquastat Relay, type L8148A

The rep at Argo stated that XX should show 120V when any zone is calling. Was he wrong??

 

Does the venter run? Make & model of the venter? Make & model of the boiler controls?

 

The venter does not run... the reset has not tripped.

The venter is: The Field Controls Co. Model CK-61BO

The control on the boiler is Honeywell R8184 G 1294

 

Sorry... I've given the venter control model #... the venter # is not able to be read from the outside. I'll need to pull the cover in the am

 

You will have to start looking for power at the L1 & N terminals on the CK61. That is the power that runs the powerventer motor and ultimately the burner. It can be a little confusing because there are 2 sources of line voltage. One is L1 L2 on the 8148 and the other is L1 N on the CK61. The reason for two sources (both from the same circuit) is so that the powerventer can post purge after power to the burner circuit has been interrupted by the 8148. If you have power at L1 & N, check at T1 T2 on the terminal strip of the CK61. If you have power at L1 & N and not at T1 T2, go back to the safety control and see if you have power at the black and white wires of the 8184. If so the control is in lockout or is defective. If no power there, go back to B1 B2 on the 8148. If no power there, check L1 L2 on the 8148. If no power there, back up to switch, fuse, breaker. Keep in mind that all these tests must be done with a call for heat.

Post back if you find it or not and we can work through it further.

Ken

 

OK... here's the latest report:

On the CK61.. there are 120 V at L1 and 0 V everywhere else. On the CK61 Relay there are 120 V at the input, but nothing coming out.

There is seemingly no power getting anywhere beyone here. Have we narrowed it down to the powervent??

 

No we did not narrow it down yet.
We now know that the powerventer control has 120 Volts.
What do you have at L1 L2 on the 8148 aquastat?
What about B1 B2 on the same control?
What do you have between the Black and White wires on the 8184?
And what do you have between the Orange and White wires of the same control?

Make sure there is a call for heat the whole time and that the 8184 is not locked out.

We should have enough info from those tests to draw a partial conclusion.

Ken

 

Ok...
On the 8148 at L1 L2 I have 120 V, at B1 B2 I have 0 V

On the 8184 I am having trouble accessing the control... should I dissconnect XX and FF, as I can not remove the cover without doing this. The are 0 V at XX and FF.

I appreciate all of the help.

 

You are measuring B1 and B2 when the thermostat is calling for heat, correct ?

Is the XX LED lit in the ARGO ?

Is the ZR/ZC LED lit in the ARGO?

You have a jumper from ZR to ZC on the ARGO ?

And, at this time you said the circulator(s) wired to the ARGO is(are) running ?

Can you see/hear the relay in the 8148 pull in when there is a call for heat ?

Nothing wired to C1 and C2 in the 8148, but is there 120VAC there and NOT at B1 and B2 ?

In the 8148, is there 120VAC on BOTH of the terminals of the HIGH LIMIT switch ? (the BLUE and RED wires) ?

 

The B1 B2 problem is where we should begin further testing. NJ Trooper is right with checking the other voltages. You can try a few easy things too. Jumper the T T terminals on the 8148. If you hear the relay click in, there must be a problem with the low voltage circuit from the Argo. The 8148 may be bad. If you have voltage at C1 C2 and not at B1 B2 with a cold boiler, the 8148 is suspect. Sounds like you are closing in on the problem.

Ken

 

Thanks for the help... I've answered above.

 

Thanks again for all of the help... we've got to be getting there. On a humerous note... do you think that the supply compay will take the Argo back on return or will I be placing it on E-Bay. I neglected to ask if it was returnable.

 

Power should flow from the 8148 (24v) thru the Argo, back to the 8148 (pulling in the relay), sending 120v out of B1 to black on the 8184G. Then 120 to the venter (via orange out of the 8184G) & back (via the draft proving switch) to the motor & transformer on the burner. All of this presumes the system is wired as "normal".

If the relay on the 8148 is pulling in but you are getting no voltage between B1 & B2 (presuming the boiler is cold), your problem lies in the 8148.

 

SO based on all of the testing we've done I would say that hte 8148 is the culpret. I would need to replace the entire control, correct?

 

Yes, based on what I can tell from the data, it sounds to me as though the relay contacts in the aquastat are shot, and that relay is not replaceable ...

Take a look at the L7224U aquastat as a replacement...

check www.patriot-supply.com as a possible source.

 

Three questions... nothing in 8184 would cause the problem, right?? The way I understand it, the relay in 8148 is not releasing the 120 V necessary to get to 8184.

What are the advantages of replacing with L7224U?

It does make sense that the powervent is not running, right?

Thanks,

Ben

 

Ben,

First question, correct. If there is no voltage on B1 and B2, it means that the 8184 and the venter are not getting any power.

Second, none really. It's a newer electronic aquastat that is designed to replace many of the older designs. It has an LED display of the boiler temperature on it, and several 'diagnostic' LEDs that can help troubleshooting. It _may_ even be a tad cheaper than the 8148 [edit: probably not cheaper, looks like the 'plain jane' 8148 may be about $10 cheaper than the 7224]... nothing wrong with replacing with the same though, just a suggestion to consider. It will require that you read the instructions for setting the aquastat up via the pushbuttons for your application. Easy to do... if you can operate a cell phone, you can set up the 7224 .

Third, perfect sense, see First.

 

Just triple checking before I drop another $150 into a new contol... does the above make sense?? Is the 120 V at the input of the CK61 coming from somewhere other than the 8148?

 

Yes. As I said earlier, there are 2 sources of power to the CK61. You have the Line in power but you don't have the burner start signal which comes from the Orange wire in the 8184. If you don't have a low water cutoff, the B1 from the 8148 goes to the black wire of the 8148 and then if there is no lockout, right to the orange wire. From there it goes to the CK61 and starts the powerventer. When the venter prover switch in the powerventer sees draft, it returns power to the burner motor and ignitor. Your circuit seems broken between L1 and B! in the 8148. You may be able to take it apart and solder the terminal that is broken. I have repaired several. The solder joints on the board go bad from all the vibration of the relay pulling in. You will have to take all the wires out and remove it from the well. Then bend the 4 tabs that hold the board in the box and pull it out. You will find the broken joint with no trouble if that is the problem.

Ken

 

Thanks for the suggestion... I think I will buy a replacement control and if I am able to make the repair I will do it and return the control. If not, I will have the control ready for install and my 8 month pregnant wife will have a hot shower tonight!!

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I installed the new control and I'm back in business

I truly appreciate all of the help.

Ben