new boiler install
#1
06-08-08, 06:44 PM
new boiler install
Ok plumbing gods here is my situation. I live in Fairbanks Alaska and I'm replacing my 40 year old slant fin boiler with a Biasi b-10. I'm doing the work myself and then my plumber will come in and inspect it. I currenetly have 3 zones, a unit heater in the garage that is not zoned but has a line voltage thermostat and a tankless coil with a 50 gallon electric hot water heater that is only used for storage.
I'm going to install a tekmar 260 and use and indirect hot water maker. So here are my questions
1. Any suggestions on brands of water heaters?
2. Should I use zone valves or cir pumps
3. I have a problem in me lower zone with air locking, what is the best method for air removal?
4. Any thoughts on a flue liner?
5. Do I need a zone vavel control like the taco.
Thanks in advance
Greg
I'm going to install a tekmar 260 and use and indirect hot water maker. So here are my questions
1. Any suggestions on brands of water heaters?
2. Should I use zone valves or cir pumps
3. I have a problem in me lower zone with air locking, what is the best method for air removal?
4. Any thoughts on a flue liner?
5. Do I need a zone vavel control like the taco.
Thanks in advance
Greg
#2
06-09-08, 06:45 AM
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OK, you have questions, we have answers!
By the way, I just put in a Biasi boiler last week. Nice boiler. Lower cost, better efficiency.
I have been told it is the same as Pensotti. And it looks identical inside.
1 - I would go with a 45 gal Super Stor brand indirect water heater
2 - That is all a matter of opinion. Personally I Have no problems with 3/4" zone valves on the heat and 1" zone valve on the hot water. This will require 1 circulator that you may want tour boiler supplier to size for you heat and hot water demand. Some people will differ with me as they only like circulators. I have been using zone valves for years and have not ever had a complaint.
3 - Air elimination: First a good air eliminator is recommended like Sparco etc. Unless you have a real old house with a messy setup of piping I have been able to just use a simple air scoop without too much problem. I usually am able to put a high vent on the boiler and on the air scoop(eliminator). I no longer put high vents on the returns as the "engineers" say it is not a good idea.
The next thing to pay attention to is the purge valves. I like to put a ball valve for each zone on the return side with a purge tee and boiler drain above the ball valves. That way you can purge each zone individually. Always purge with the highest pressure allowed without blowing the relief valve.
4 - Why do you need a flue liner? Is there something wrong with your chimney?
5 - I would definitely use a zone control like taco, whether it be for zone valves or circulators. All the wiring is done for you, all you need to do is plug and play pretty much. And it has some simple diagnostics on the side so you know when a zone is calling etc. Also has a priority setting for the hot water.
By the way, I just put in a Biasi boiler last week. Nice boiler. Lower cost, better efficiency.
I have been told it is the same as Pensotti. And it looks identical inside.
1 - I would go with a 45 gal Super Stor brand indirect water heater
2 - That is all a matter of opinion. Personally I Have no problems with 3/4" zone valves on the heat and 1" zone valve on the hot water. This will require 1 circulator that you may want tour boiler supplier to size for you heat and hot water demand. Some people will differ with me as they only like circulators. I have been using zone valves for years and have not ever had a complaint.
3 - Air elimination: First a good air eliminator is recommended like Sparco etc. Unless you have a real old house with a messy setup of piping I have been able to just use a simple air scoop without too much problem. I usually am able to put a high vent on the boiler and on the air scoop(eliminator). I no longer put high vents on the returns as the "engineers" say it is not a good idea.
The next thing to pay attention to is the purge valves. I like to put a ball valve for each zone on the return side with a purge tee and boiler drain above the ball valves. That way you can purge each zone individually. Always purge with the highest pressure allowed without blowing the relief valve.
4 - Why do you need a flue liner? Is there something wrong with your chimney?
5 - I would definitely use a zone control like taco, whether it be for zone valves or circulators. All the wiring is done for you, all you need to do is plug and play pretty much. And it has some simple diagnostics on the side so you know when a zone is calling etc. Also has a priority setting for the hot water.
#3
06-09-08, 09:59 AM
Mark, Thanks for the answers. I have a couple of follow up questions
will a taco svc work well with the tekmar 260?
also I was told I may need a flue liner as the stack temp on the biasi is around 350 degrees andcondesation may be a problem.
Thanks again
will a taco svc work well with the tekmar 260?
also I was told I may need a flue liner as the stack temp on the biasi is around 350 degrees andcondesation may be a problem.
Thanks again
#4
06-09-08, 01:37 PM
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Check out chapter 7 paragraph 1. You should be fine if you have a normal clay flue.
http://www.qhtinc.com/pdf/B10-Manual-REV-G.pdf
Unfortunately, I do not know much about Tekmar as I have never used one yet. But I have heard the tekmar control is similar to the control in the Munchkin boiler and you can combine those controls.
http://www.qhtinc.com/pdf/B10-Manual-REV-G.pdf
Unfortunately, I do not know much about Tekmar as I have never used one yet. But I have heard the tekmar control is similar to the control in the Munchkin boiler and you can combine those controls.
#5
06-10-08, 06:01 PM
You can use a Taco ZVC with a tekmar 260. However, you will not get the DHW priority. tekmar says they want a dedicated circulator for the indirect. See Section C2 of
http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/litera...robat/d260.pdf
That said, however, there is probably a way to fake the tekmar using the ZVC and a zone valve. Haven't thought about it. I think part of tekmar's admonition is to make sure that if you have a zone valve indirect, that the circulator provides adequate flow through the boiler and the indirect. Some indirects want a larger circulator than would be used for the space heating loops. So if you sized everything correctly, you could potentially use a zone valve and just set the tekmar to "DHW Pump" and it would be none the wiser. Probably. Maybe. Ask your tekmar distributor if you go this route.
I agree with Mark that zone valves are a good thing. Also that the Taco ZVCs make life simple. Less electricity use than a bunch of circulators. I would suggest Taco 570 series zone valves for the space heating, and a Honeywell for the indirect. The Taco's take a while to energize, and open and close slowly, so are less prone to banging. The Honeywell's (most, if not all), are essentially instantaneous. You don't want a 60-90 second delay on an indirect call. Been there, fixed that....
Another option is to do zone valves for the space heating, and a dedicated circulator for the indirect. So you have two pumps instead of one, but if all the space heating is on one circulator, and you have DHW priority, what's the diff? I believe that the Taco ZVC can handle a circulator instead of a zone valve on the priority zone. [EDIT: yes it does. See http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/Fil...y/102-090.pdf]. But if you use the tekmar priority -- which you should -- wire the DHW circ on that zone but don't use the priority switch in the ZVC.
Don't forget that because you are going with a standard cast iron boiler and an outdoor reset controller, you will need some form of boiler protection. Primary/secondary piping, thermic bypass, etc.
http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/litera...robat/d260.pdf
That said, however, there is probably a way to fake the tekmar using the ZVC and a zone valve. Haven't thought about it. I think part of tekmar's admonition is to make sure that if you have a zone valve indirect, that the circulator provides adequate flow through the boiler and the indirect. Some indirects want a larger circulator than would be used for the space heating loops. So if you sized everything correctly, you could potentially use a zone valve and just set the tekmar to "DHW Pump" and it would be none the wiser. Probably. Maybe. Ask your tekmar distributor if you go this route.
I agree with Mark that zone valves are a good thing. Also that the Taco ZVCs make life simple. Less electricity use than a bunch of circulators. I would suggest Taco 570 series zone valves for the space heating, and a Honeywell for the indirect. The Taco's take a while to energize, and open and close slowly, so are less prone to banging. The Honeywell's (most, if not all), are essentially instantaneous. You don't want a 60-90 second delay on an indirect call. Been there, fixed that....
Another option is to do zone valves for the space heating, and a dedicated circulator for the indirect. So you have two pumps instead of one, but if all the space heating is on one circulator, and you have DHW priority, what's the diff? I believe that the Taco ZVC can handle a circulator instead of a zone valve on the priority zone. [EDIT: yes it does. See http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/Fil...y/102-090.pdf]. But if you use the tekmar priority -- which you should -- wire the DHW circ on that zone but don't use the priority switch in the ZVC.
Don't forget that because you are going with a standard cast iron boiler and an outdoor reset controller, you will need some form of boiler protection. Primary/secondary piping, thermic bypass, etc.
