Weil McLain AFG changing specs

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Old 06-19-08, 06:32 PM
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Question Weil McLain AFG changing specs

So I wanted to get the specs for my Weil McLain WTGO-3 with a Beckett AFG burner. Rather than actually look for the manual, I thought it would be easier to pull the specs up online. It was easy to get the specs, but it didn't read right. The nozzle I'd been using wasn't one of the ones listed. So I dug up my original manual. Everything was different. The nozzle, head, pump pressure, etc; all were different. (All these changes were only made to the GO-3 units. The GO-2 and GO-4 were spec'ed the same.) So should I re-configure it to the new specs or just keep the current configuration? It does work fine as is, but if they made these changes to boost efficiency, I think I should follow along.
 
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Old 06-19-08, 06:59 PM
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W/m Go-3

I presume you are talking about the change from a 70 to a 45 nozzle. If that is correct, more than the nozzle spec changed. The whole air tube assembly changed. Can you provide more details, specificly the number of the installed air tube assembly? This is often on a sticker on the burner body. If it is not there, it should be in the printed manual.
 
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Old 06-19-08, 08:47 PM
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Yea, a whole bunch changed. The nozzle went from a 1.00 x 90 B to a .85 x 45 B. The air tube went from a AF44YHPW with a F-3 head to a AFG50MBAS with a L1 head. Pump pressure went from 100 to 140 psi. Yes, I realize I would need to swap the whole air tube and do a bunch to set up the burner again. The question I have is whether this is worth doing. If it is, the other question is would my pump have any problem putting out the 140 psi.
 
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Old 06-19-08, 09:06 PM
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Changing Air Tube

In my opinion, yes changing the air tube assembly would be well worth the time & money. The 45 nozzle with the 'L' head works very well. Making a major change like this is not a DIY job unless you have combustion test equipment & are competent in it's use. Your pump should have no trouble with the 140#. I don't remember if W/M uses a delay oil solenoid or not. You should check that as well. I suspect they are using either a R7184 B or R7184 P primary with Beckett's Clean Cut pump which has a soleniod built in. If your burner uses an oil soleniod with a delayed opening, you should be fine without having to change the primary.
 
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Old 06-19-08, 09:58 PM
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The pump is a Suntec A2VA-7116, which says it's rated to 200 psi @ 2.0 gph. I don't see anything that resembles a solenoid anywhere near the pump, so I think that's a no. The primary is a R8184 D. (I do have a used R8184 G on a burner I picked up for parts.)

I'm not sure about whether I'd attempt this as a DIY or not. I know I would need to purchase some test equipment. I'm pretty good at working with other types of test equipment, and I'm pretty meticulous. So I know with the right equipment I could do it. I supose I could swap out the parts and get it running smoke free, then call a pro to dial it in.
 
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Old 06-20-08, 07:32 PM
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Burner Upgrade

By the time you spend the money upgrading the burner, including air tube combination, fuel solenoid, & changing the primary control, I would have to believe it would be almost as cheap to buy a whole burner. Honestly, I don't think you would ever recover the investment by way of improvement in efficiency.
 
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Old 06-20-08, 09:30 PM
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10-4. With $4 oil, I just want to make sure I'm doing all I can to conserve. Maybe I'll just keep this in the back of my mind incase my burner needs a major repair.
 
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Old 06-21-08, 05:56 PM
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Conserving Oil

You might want to look into an outdoor reset. These controls modulate the boiler temperature with the outdoor temperature.
 
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Old 06-21-08, 11:04 PM
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Interesting that you mention this. I was researching to see it there is an aquastat that varies boiler temp with outside temp. I surfed up "outside reset" and I believe this is what you are referring to. Is there a model or models I should look at? If it makes a difference, I'm running 3 zones plus I've got an indirect fire hot water heater which is run as a 4th zone.
 
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Old 06-22-08, 01:09 PM
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Check out the TekMar 256 and 260. The 256 being a basic ODR model and the 260 being a little more sophisticated.

There is also the Beckett Heat Manager that may or may not be OK with the DHW.

Al.
 
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Old 06-23-08, 05:02 AM
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The Tekmar 260 sounds nice. My only gripe would be they fix the boiler (on or off) at 180. My DHW unit says it's ok as long as the intake water is 20 degrees higher than the set temp. With the DHW set at 120, I should be ok with something like a 145 to 165 range. The Beckett heat manager somhow looks cheap, and as you say, I'm not sure if it would work with DHW.

Tekmar doesn't really give all the installation details. It says it's not a safety, so I would need to use it in series with an aquastat. So this leaves me wondering where one would put the Tekmar probe to get boiler temperature. Does it install down the same well as the aquastat probe? I'm just guessing what they call a universal sensor is reading boiler temperature. If it isn't, how could they regulate it?
 
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Old 06-23-08, 05:37 AM
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Tekmar splits there info up between a data sheet and an application sheet. With the app sheet showing the install drawings.

http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/litera...robat/a260.pdf

Still not the easiest to follow.

Al.
 
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Old 06-24-08, 04:32 AM
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I saw that, but I guess I'm still confused. 1st, the boiler temp sensor seems to be inline. The only way I could see this working is if the boiler is off when there is no demand on the system. Is this correct? Is that really ok with the boiler?

2nd the "boiler" connection leave a great deal to the imaginaiton. Is this power out of the 260 unit going to the boiler power switch, or is this a switch that is wired in series with boiler power or burner power?

Also, I see, lookning at 260-2, they have a high limit aquastat in series with the zone valve motor. I don't have a high limit aquastat on my indirect fire DHW heater. Is this a problem and do I need to add one?
 
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Old 08-18-08, 08:59 PM
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Intellicon HW+ vs Tekmar

For the money I still believe the Intellicon HW is the best bet, it is guaranteed to save at least 10% on fuel costs has a 15 year mfg warranty and is a heck of a lot easier and cheaper to install then the tekmar...if the tekmar was that good why doesnt it also a money back guarantee on fuel savings?
 
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Old 08-20-08, 09:20 PM
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Hi North, I haven't seen anything in Intellicon's literaure about how the Intellicon HW deals with domestic hot water demand. I ruled out the Intellicon HW for that simple reason.
 
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Old 08-21-08, 12:12 AM
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North Man... have you ever had a customer claim that the units did not save 10% and try to collect on the 'guarantee' ? I think they can give that guarantee because _proving_ that it did not save 10% is going to be extremely difficult.

What do they expect Joe Homeowner to do ? Clock his gas meter ? Put a flow meter on the fuel oil line ? Buy a Johnson Degree Day meter ? No... I don't that that will ever happen.

And the 'savings' on the display ? Engineers are very clever about these things. They can program that microprocessor to report whatever 'savings' they want it to.

There's a fella at my day job who put one of them VORTEX TORNADO things on his auto... he claims it works, because he wants to think it works. He'll probably be adding magnets to his fuel line any day now. Even though we all know it's total BS, right ?

Tekmar doesn't NEED to make claims because ODR is a proven technology that works.

I'm a skeptic, sorry... show me the proof... I believe that Brookhaven test and report is flawed.
 
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Old 08-21-08, 10:54 AM
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Trooper I thought I was the only one who felt that way. It was not a fair comparison. You must test apples to apples.
Let's test with a mod/con and a cast iron set up the same controls and piped the same per spec. Do both as a direct vent product.
I look at fuel savings or not everyday and came up with my own conclusions. It comes down to btu size of new to old boiler, increased efficiency (not a lot from 88-95%), and boiler piping.
When comparing btu's per degree day I feel is the best way. I am not opposed to lab testing and alot of good comes from it. The true test in fuel savings is field test. Remove an old boiler and install a new boiler is the test. The family which lives in the home are not going to change their living habits much. It all goes out the window if other changes to the home happened since last winter.
I may have stated before on this site but I was on a jobsite with a new Revolution boiler. In November the owners used almost 200 gallons of LP. The boiler was oversized. The heat loss was 48K and the installed boiler was 160k. Changed out to the properlu sized boiler (6 section to a 3 section). The january feul bill was just over 100 gallons of LP. Jan was 17% colder than Nov.
If the installed boiler is mad/con or properly sized sidewall vented product, ODR savings seems to be about the BTU reduction from old to new boiler. That number is increased when a chimney vented water heater is removed and indirect is installed. The number is also higher when old boiler maintained temp or had a domestic h/w coil.
 
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Old 09-08-08, 08:16 PM
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Intellicon HW

Hi I certainly understand the skepticism with the Intellicon's guarantee of at least 10% savings, there is obviously many sophisticated ways with determine the savings or one may do it the old fashioned way of measuring the the boiler/furnace on-times. Or if you dont have the means to do such you may want to take a look at some of the numerous independent reports @ http://enconcorp.com/ecs/index.php?o...d=24&Itemid=86 or http://www.savingenergy.ca/English/075~Test_Reports/ in addition to the fact that Beckett formed a partnership with Intellidyne (Intellicon) to mfg a similar yet less sophisticated model with their Heat Manager. The bottom line is if you just step back and really think about the logic of the Intellicon HW+ you will understand the logic behind it on why it guarantee's at least 10% savings, all I know is with the economy being what it is and energy costs out of control I have seen quite a bit of these devices moving out to the homeowners especially compared to the tekmar, which was good in its day however short with todays realistic demands...Lastly, I have typically seen the Intellicon HW+ installed on newer cold start boilers which has yielded nice savings of at least 10% (check out the QHT website), let alone on the older warm start systems where I have seen savings better then 20%. To date not one return from a customer, over 200 installs with an average of one a day....
 
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