Beckett install and Tune-up questions


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Old 06-28-08, 04:31 PM
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Beckett install and Tune-up questions

I finally got a chance to get rid of my old burner and stack control and
installed a 2004 Beckett AFG burner clean cut fuel pump with a R7184 control . I added correct size blast tube to fit my boiler.
I scrubbed out the boiler (Old American Standard) put in a Quickie chamber 100.
I also had to make a baffle for the boiler. Added terminal block for easier troubleshooting. Everything went fairly smooth except I am not sure about tuning it up.
I use the boiler for domestic hot water and heat.
So far it seems to be running well for a few weeks.
I did buy a BACHARACH FYRITE 10-5022 used in new condition. I think the CO2 tester needs new fluid. It seems not to be working. Does fluid go bad from sitting in unit for a long period of time? When I test my breath it reads 4% and so does boiler. I do see small particles in fluid. Anyway I was trying to start with setting the draft over the flame. It is reading
-.01 to -.02 kind of jumping back and forth. It seems like the damper would have to open way to much to get it a little steadier. I would think the draft should be steadier.
I tried to play with the air band on the burner. I did get a perfect draft but it caused control to lock up later. It was causing problems on
start up. I did open air band quite a bit. I put air band back to where
it was, hit the reset button and it started up with a big puff of smoke. Its back to working with no problems but it sooted up the boiler. I guess I will have to clean it again just to see if this burner is running clean.
Smoke test keeps coming up 0. Stack temp was around 500.

Should the draft be steady?

I have questions on adjusting the air band and air shutter. When or why do you have to make air band adjustments?

When or why do you have to make air shutter adjustments?

I jumped TT on burner controller is that right? It seems to be working. I will attached electrical prints I used.

It is set for blower to remain on for 2 minutes after burner shuts off. Any suggestions on times.

CO2 tester not working any suggestions. I believe I am using all instruments correctly. Directions were included with kit.
I know the draft meter is working correctly and the stack thermometer. It seems like smoke gun is working but would it really be reading 0. Bought kit on ebay. Really does look new, But you can tell it was in case for a long time by air tube kinks.


This is all a first for me. I do not have prior experience with boilers/burners. So any help appreciated. Does this look OK so far to you pro's out there. Thanks in advance for your time and help.

I do have a contract with a oil company (well known large company) for service. I have to decide if I should stick with them. I never payed attention to my boiler at all. When I started looking and researching I am thinking twice. They busted my baffle a few years back and said I did not need it. My combustion chamber was all torn up. I had relays blocked up in the stack control. My circulator motor was drenched in oil. The wire nuts for motor were actually filled to top with oil. That is why I am doing work myself. I would like to know I am getting the service I am paying for.

OTHER INFO: the beckett afg burner was previously set up with a 1.25 solid nozzle. I put in a 1.0 solid.

Old original burner before doing anything was draft -.01 and 700 stack temp. That is all I checked before taken off.

I hope I am doing photobucket correctly.

http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/n...ent=boiler.jpg


http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/n...rintburner.jpg

http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/n...rent=print.jpg

http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/n...roldiagram.jpg

http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Picture050.jpg

http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Picture066.jpg
 
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Old 06-28-08, 06:08 PM
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Hello,

My aunt has the same boiler and I always got about an 82% efficiency, so I could not convince her to replace it. I think it had a Carlin burner on it though. I still believe that if you heat a gallon of water for a cup of coffee you indirectly bring down the efficiency.

I prefer Beckett myself.

Why did you downsize the nozzle?

Yes, Fyrite solution for the CO2 analyzer does go bad yearly according to manufacturer. You will need to change the fluid. CO2 should be between 10 and 13

-1 to -2 draft is perfect. You don't want too much draft or it will pull the flame off the end of the end cone. Some boilers can be pressure fired with a Beckett burner but I would not with the age of that boiler.

Smoke wants to be as close to zero as possible but not less than zero. In other words, adjust the air until you see a trace of smoke, then back it off just a bit. Recheck your smoke and make sure it reads 0 smoke.

Stack temp should be around 450*

Replacing the baffle is a good thing so the heat does not go right up the chimney.

As far as the circulator is concerned, I would change it to a 007 or equivalent, Less parts to break, quieter, no oil messes.

I like that terminal block, keeps things neat and clean.

Good Idea changing out the chamber. Sounds like you are on top of things.

You only need to adjust the air band if you run out of air shutter adjustments. Too much air will blow out the flame or spark, and too little will soot up the boiler.

Did you change the fuel filter? And did you check, clean, or replace the strainer and gasket on the fuel pump if applicable?

As far as the wiring is concerned, you will need to jump out TT if you already have TT going to another control, like a triple aquastat.
 
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Old 06-29-08, 07:50 AM
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air band

Hi
Thanks for reply. My old burner had a nozzle 1.0 A.
Tag on boiler reads to use a 1.25

I bought the AFG used for $100 and it was factory set with a 1.25 B nozzle. I switched it to the 1.0 B.
Thanks for checking. I did change gasket plus strainer and put in brand new nozzle. I also replaced Micron foam filter. Is that one filter enough?

Thanks for clearing up shutter and air band question make sense that they are for same purpose.

If I have not even a trace of smoke now. Do I open air band a little more to get a trace (or do I close band)? My shutter is fully open and air band is slightly open. When moving air band do you move just a small tiny amount at a time?

So it is Okay to have Draft meter needle moving back and forth from -.01 to -.02
The needle does not have to be steady?

My thermostats pick up a a Honeywell relay and then contacts feed through aquastsat to burner and circulator circuits. So I guess TT should be jumped.

Is 007 a Taco. I do have questions on that ( and other things) but will post on new topic.

I know its time for a new boiler just not ready.



Thank You, Thank YOU
 
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Old 06-29-08, 08:11 AM
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New Burner

You don't mention the spray angle on the nozzle. I suggest using an 80. What end cone is on the burner? At 1 gph the F3 would be ideal. Also be sure to check the pump pressure. It should be 100 psig.

You close (lower number) the air band slightly to reduce the air & work toward a trace of smoke.

I noticed in your picture #5 a combination reducing valve & relief valve. The relief valve part of that device does not have enough capacity. I suggest installing a separate 3/4" relief valve.
 
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Old 06-29-08, 08:13 AM
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Hello again

Close the shutter 1 number at a time and check smoke until you see smoke, then back off 1, wait a minute and recheck. If 0 smoke. you are at optimum. If still a trace, open one more number. You will probably be fine there.

What does the boiler have for a max btu rating? And is the recommended nozzle size of 1.25 a max nozzle or what they say to run in it.
What angle are you running on the nozzle?

Your old burner probably ran at 100psi and your new burner could be running at 140psi. If so you are really running about an 1.25 nozzle. You should get the pressure checked.

With Beckett you can run either hollow or solid so if you find you are having any problems, try a different nozzle and recheck all the settings.

It is OK for the draft to fluctuate, On a windy day you may see if fluctuate even more.

One filter is fine. I have never even seen a system with more than one filter.

Taco 007 circs are industry standard, but there are also other brands. Grundfos, and B&G.
 
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Old 06-29-08, 09:16 AM
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Another Arco Flame that has been running for decades. . . I don't think they ever die.

You asked about post purge. The only reason for it on that boiler is to cool the burner head after it shuts off. No need to purge the boiler itself. Natural draft will continue to pull air through the burner.

I would go for a short post purge (15 seconds?) to get the main heat out of the burner tube & head. Then let the draft continue to purge.

Al.
 
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Old 06-29-08, 09:37 AM
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Post Purge

I agree. If you notice carbon on the end cone you can always increase the post purge time.
 
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Old 06-29-08, 12:09 PM
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Yes it is an 80 nozzle and a F3 end cone.
I do not have anything to check fuel pressure. Is a gauge expensive? The tag on the beckett burner says it is set at 100 lbs. But of course I do not know for sure.

Tag on boiler says 1.25 gph if using a tankless coil. I not sure of BTU will look to see if listed on boiler.
Hopefully tomorrow I can try to adjust smoke/shutter.
I will also cut post time setting.

Grady can you explain to me what is wrong with reducing valve. Do you mean it is not rated for correct pressure or wrong pipe size. I did not know those pictures were linked. Since you brought it up maybe you can help. At some point I would like to add a bigger cast iron radiator to my living room and change the zones around. I not sure the proper draining procedure but that would be the time to change reducing valve also. At some point I will post more pics and ask more direct questions. But would like to know what I need.

The one thing I am concerned about is I have a really slow drip from the circulator flange. I noticed it at the end of heating season. It is very small looks like it been doing it awhile. Not dripping now. Stopped when heat turned off. Any suggestions. Should I simply try to tighten flange bolts. Are there O-rings or gaskets in there.

"Another Arco Flame that has been running for decades. . . I don't think they ever die. "
I am not sure what to do with it now. Its still sitting close to boiler. Almost feel guilty for removing it.


Thanks again. Great Help here
 
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Old 06-29-08, 10:29 PM
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Reducing Valve

It does not have enough capacity for the boiler, just the feed line. If there are no other tappings available at the top of the boiler, when you do the re-piping, a tee could be installed where the supply pipe connects to the boiler & a relief valve installed there.

Pump pressure: You can get an inexpensive 150 or 200# gauge at a plumbing supply store. Most gauges are 1/4" pipe thread so you would need a reducing coupling to go from 1/4 to 1/8" pipe thread & a 1/8" pipe nipple aprox. 3-4" long. This will screw directly into the pressure tap on the pump.

Circulator drip: You can try tightening the bolts but most likely the gaskets will need to be replaced. They are inexpensive & should be available at any plumbing supply store.

BTW, the boiler rating according to the tag is either 1.0 or 1.25 gph. See pricture #15 or 19.
 

Last edited by Grady; 06-29-08 at 10:35 PM. Reason: More info.
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Old 07-01-08, 06:48 AM
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Hi

Thanks Grady for extra plumbing info. Your right about tag, you have a good eye. I knew I wanted to use 1.0 just because that size was in there already but I thought tag was reading 1.25 for tank-less 1.0 without tank-less.



Not much to report on adjustments. Only had a short period of time to play with shutter. I closed air band fully and started to close off shutter opening. I think I started to see a trace of smoke not sure though. Ran out of time. I hate to make drastic changes when I am not going to be around the house much the next few days. So I stopped there for now. I will post results when I finish. Very limited time these days. Still have to order CO2 fluid and pressure gauge.



Thanks again everyone for info. I really appreciate your time and knowledge.

(will be posting more questions )
 
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Old 07-01-08, 04:09 PM
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Mike, how are you measuring smoke ? Do you have a pump ?

You won't be able to SEE a trace level of smoke by viewing the flame or the chimney.

The first tool you use to adjust the air should be the smoke pump (gun). THEN the Fyrite.
 
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Old 07-01-08, 04:58 PM
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10-5022

The 10-5022 kit included a smoke pump, MZF draft gauge, thermometer, CO2 tester with hose assembly, & efficiency slide chart. Before I got my Fyrite Pro 125, that is the kit I used every day. I still prefer the MZF draft gauge to the one built into the 125.
 
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Old 07-01-08, 06:41 PM
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Ohhhh, I missed that he bought the whole kit !

I re-read a few posts... Mike, you can't adjust the draft with the air settings on the burner. The only control that you have over that is the counter-weight on the barometric damper.

Yes, it's gonna be bouncy ... don't worry about that.
 
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Old 07-02-08, 07:16 AM
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Smoke tester

Please don't take this the wrong way but, on the smoke tester pump is the rubber hose connected to the pump inside the spring that protects the hose? Sometimes they come off and you wouldn't even notice that it did (personal experience) Gee! no smoke at all. I'm not saying it did in your case but you said your smoke test always comes up 0. 10 pump strokes right?
 
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Old 07-02-08, 02:26 PM
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I once had the probe fall out of the flue pipe and didn't notice ! MAN! this thing is burnin' clean !

10 strokes of the pump, and not too fast either... figure about 3 seconds / stroke.

If you do repeated tests in short order, you may also get some water in the tube and the pump, and those will probably throw off yer readings too. If the paper does get wet, you will feel more resistance to the pull. Blow out the tube, and let the pump dry out a bit before trying again.
 
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Old 07-02-08, 06:51 PM
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Ok, Thanks I will check hose soon as I can. I tried 8 to 10 (even 11) strokes at different times and different speeds. I thought maybe I was doing something wrong or smoke tester might be defective, which either one could still be true. What I did do was light a match and then blew it out into a plastic container with a lid. Poked a small hole and inserted the smoke gun and performed smoke test. I did read a nice dark brown circle. Would that prove it's working???



Its possible I repeated to many tests in short order. Maybe moisture problem. I was doing it one after another.

Not home now. I know I won't have a chance to do anymore tests for a couple more days. Will keep in mind your tips.



As always thanks for your input.
 
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Old 07-05-08, 02:17 PM
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Got smoke

Thanks for all the tips. Worked great. I did like was suggested (closing one # at a time). It looks like the shutter was just still opened to much to read a trace. Also did not take so many tests in a row. Really was starting to think something was wrong.

Mark you asked about BTU. Not sure did not see anything listed and was never told what it is by anybody.

Just have to order C02 Fluid (if that is correct term)
Also pump pressure gauge. Any suggestions on name brand.
I am most likely going to call Patriots Supply in NY on Monday. Is that the best place for these items. There is no supply houses that are that close to me.

Thanks Again
 
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Old 07-05-08, 02:23 PM
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Pressure Gauge/ CO2 Fluid

The pressure gauge should be available locally. Any gauge with a high enough range is fine.

The fluid is going to be expensive simply because it is a Hazzardous Material. The shipping will probably cost as much as the fluid.
 
 

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