Buderus


  #1  
Old 09-16-08, 08:32 PM
Amooseman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 16
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Lightbulb Buderus

I've been pumping the local dealers for infomation on replacing my old coil boiler with a new boiler and inderect water heater. From what I can tell, most Cast Iron systems have the same energy rating - all else being equal. However, one just told me about the boderus G125BE - not sure if he meant that one or the GB125BE --
Other than one includes the logamatic control, why would one be so more efficent than the other. I'm in CT- and they did say that CT has not approved these models yet, but expects to do so in a few months- and now could install the G215 series. Am I best waiting 2-3 months for the 125 series? if so, whats the difference between the two? Should I stick with the Buderus water tank too- or go with another one?

Thanks for all posts- I've learned alot reading tonight- wish I found this site sooner.
 
  #2  
Old 09-17-08, 08:34 AM
X
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,338
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I would wait until CT approves them.

The G125BE oil boilers are the next generation of oil combustion. Very good progress without getting too far into the fringe of techie. The equipment appears to be very well designed and uses quality components. The AFUE is better due in part to more efficient combustion (that is one cool burner) and better utilization of flue gases in the heat exchanger (via baffles, etc.).

The price will be higher, but the G125BE comes with a lot of good stuff that you would add to a standard boiler package anyway. For example, the Logamatic control and the Tigerloop. The Logamatic is a very good outdoor reset and control package. The Tigerloop is the best oil filtering/delivery system going. Very good stuff and worth the initial investment in terms of future fuel savings and ease of operation/maintenance.

For indirect tanks, you could stick with Buderus. They make a nice one. Other options would be the Triangle Tube Phase III and the HT Products SuperStor. The TT is a tank-in-tank design, and the SuperStor is a coiled heat exchanger.

While you are waiting for the boiler, take some time to do a heat loss for the house, figure out what size and brand of indirect you like, ask more questions here, etc. And start interviewing potential installers. Finding someone good can be a lengthy process, particularly once we get into heating season.
 
  #3  
Old 09-17-08, 07:58 PM
Amooseman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 16
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the info. I have not done a 'proper' heat loss, but I have had 3-4 estimates - and most come up with the same 2-3 models of boilers (weil mclain wtgo-4, Biasi B4). One measured the living sqft of the house (2667) and said he'd base the model ona 'load' of 104. Do I really need to run around and measure everything in the house?

They say the bigest difference I will notice will be going from a coil to the indirect tank - and have not really tried to sell me on the logamatic control- but said its an option like if you wanted the cd changer vs the tape player. I am planning on staying in this home for a very long time, and I am interested in fuel efficency- but I don't want to break the bank doing it either. I did put in a wood insert last year to help offset oil consumption and I use 1200 - 1400 gal/yr now.

I've put my time into learning about boilers because I thought that was were the savings would be- is there a big difference in the indirects as well- the technology seems fairly the same with minor differences- such as the w.m. Gold Plus 40 vs. the coil in the megastore 40 - but will I see much in a difference between either economy or performance with any of the major brands- as long as they are sized correctly?

And how do you find a good installer- I can check the b.b.b. - but most fuel companies have complaints- and alot of the time the sails person is not the one installing- so other than relying on my gut- or ensuring they have been certified- and other idea's?
 
  #4  
Old 09-18-08, 08:06 AM
X
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,338
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Because you're in the home for the long-term, you are definitely doing the right thing by researching thoroughly one of (if not the) major mechanical systems in the house.

104k BTU/hr as a "guess" at the space heating load is probably very close -- if you leave two windows open all winter. 104k for 2700 sf of heated space is 38.5 BTU/hr per square foot. That's really high, unless your walls are uninsulated, you have single-pane windows, etc.

If your house is reasonably constructed and insulated, your heat loss is likely much less than that. Like 30-40% less. But you should do a heat loss so you know.

Because the space heating load will be lower than the BTU output required to keep a typical 40 gallon indirect performing well, the best option, IMHO, is to size the boiler close to the indirect demand, and add outdoor reset for the space heating. Plus 'DHW priority' (DHW = Domestic Hot Water) that allows the boiler to turn off the space heating for a few minutes to devote its full output to the indirect. The Logamatic control does all this (outdoor reset and DHW priority), and then some.

I think you're right about the indirects. They are much closer to each other in performance than boilers. The Buderus, the SuperStor and the Triangle Tube are all fine indirects that will perform well. FWIW, I have a 119 gallon SuperStor Ultra on a solar hot water system. I'm really impressed with its performance.

Say you go with a 40-ish gallon indirect. I'd suggest the GB125BE/22.

I'd also suggest running the tank at 140F and using a Taco or Sparco-Honeywell anti-scald tempering valve to provide ~115F at the faucets.

Here's a hypothetical setup:

Boiler: Buderus GB125BE/22
Control: Logamatic (included with the boiler)
Indirect: HTProducts SuperStor Ultra SSU-45
Tempering Valve: Taco 5000 series

There are a few more odds and ends, but that's the core of it.

Finding a good installer. Some tips:

1) They should offer to do a heat loss, or at least be able to speak intelligently about how one sizes a boiler.

2) You should ask for references. Not that other consumers would necessarily know anything about their boiler system, but they can tell you whether the work crew was neat, orderly, showed up on time, and whether the billing, any maintenance calls, and other aspects of the job were well-executed.

3) They should provide some control options like outdoor reset and DHW priority. They might also look at how your system is zoned and offer changes if you are not currently happy with how the home is set up.

4) They should be happy to show you pictures of some of their other installations. These installations should be neat (piping plumb and square, attention paid to layout following manufacturer instructions), provide easy access for servicing, and other stuff that you'll learn to look for as you continue learning.
 
  #5  
Old 09-22-08, 05:49 PM
Amooseman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 16
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
So do I need to even bother spending the time doing a heat loss calculation- if the water heater is going to determine the size of the boiler?- unless I'm living in a barn (hmm- that might be easier). Most homes are insulated to the weather in the area- and mine built in 1960's with 3000 Sq ft- does have foil insulation on all exterior walls- so shouldn't I just assume that if a 40 gallon water tank is what I need (2 adults, 2 growing kids) - why not just base everything off of that?

I'm also interested in why you didn't suggest a buderus water heater- wouldn't it be more matched up with the boiler? - and stacking them seems like a nice space option- even if you don't truely need it.
 
  #6  
Old 09-22-08, 06:02 PM
rbeck's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2,386
Upvotes: 0
Received 61 Upvotes on 51 Posts
For info on the importance of heatloss check out this site
www.comfort-calc.net/home-page.html
 
  #7  
Old 09-22-08, 06:29 PM
X
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,338
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Heat loss is good to know. Doing a room by room heat loss can point out rooms that might benefit fom some work on reducing the heat loss (e.g., insulation and/or air sealing), or adding radiation. All things that can play into the sizing of a boiler or implementing a control strategy. Do it at some point. It's also possible (though probably not in your case) that the heat loss is greater than the indirect demand.

A few posts up, I did say Buderus makes a fine indirect. At least twice. Stackable (is it stackable specifically with the GB125BE?) is nice. The hypothetical above is an HTP, with which I've been really impressed, and might come at a slightly lower price than the Buderus model.
 
  #8  
Old 09-26-08, 07:23 AM
Amooseman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 16
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the info. I just found out that the G125BE is now approved in CT- and should be available for delevery in 4-6 weeks (Not yet in stock) but I'm waiting to hear if the GB125BE is approved in CT. Meanwhile, I'll fight for the oil prices, and do a heat loss calculation (after I finish up my Taxes- thats how crazy its been!). Then I can start to fight for prices on the boilers. I also think if I contact Buderus, I should be able to find out who sells them locally and get = quotes on the setups.

Now I've seen in alot of posts- different tempering valves, such as the Taco- Should I worry about this as well, or trust who ever is installing the system is going to use what they are most comfortable installing?? I do tend to take very hot showers, and I know my domestic hot water is way to hot for what most peoples concerns are - partly because with my coil now, I don't want to run out. Thoughts on this??
 
  #9  
Old 10-09-08, 07:31 PM
Amooseman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 16
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Okay, company came out again, and did not do a heat loss calc- but measured the total length of all basebords to come up with a total- to be sure that it was not too much for the boiler- then quoted me on a G125BE/34, with a weil McLain Plus 40 indirect. all for just under $10K. They said they could do a heat loss calc- but they normally do that in new construction where the figures would be more factual - and by measuring the length of the basebords, they would be able to determine max capasity, and be sure the boiler could handel it. I've also heard that the heat demand for the HW would be about the same in sizing the unit as heating the house- but that just doesn't make sence to me with indirects. I hope to find time to struggle through a heat loss calc this weekend - but then how do I confirm if the sizing is correct, or too big?
 
  #10  
Old 10-15-08, 03:15 AM
L
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I am in CT and looking for a new furnance oil. It was good to read your posts. If I may ask, who did you get your quotes from. I am in Colchester, CT.

I am looking for the same Bod. GB125E.22 with tank.

thanks
 
  #11  
Old 10-15-08, 06:06 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 19,710
Upvotes: 0
Received 8 Upvotes on 6 Posts
- but measured the total length of all basebords to come up with a total-
The amount of installed radiation has NOTHING to do with size boiler that is required. And of course, NOTHING to do with the heat loss.

I would be extremely wary of any contractor that tells you that is does... and I would RUN from any that insists that it does.
 
  #12  
Old 10-15-08, 07:53 PM
Amooseman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 16
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Lady, The GB125BE is not yet approved in CT- But the G125BE is. I only looked at oil companies for instalation- to get the 24 hr services and the long term care I wanted. The issuee I had for me with contractors who did not sell oil (at least in my area) they did not provide after hour serves- so although the install came with a 1 year warrenty, they wouldn't come out evenings/weekends- so I'd need to pay for a service contract anyway. The people I'm using here wouldn't come up as far as you- but the package including water tank is quoted at about $9K. I'd love to hear your quotes.
 
  #13  
Old 10-15-08, 08:02 PM
Amooseman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 16
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
The amount of installed radiation has NOTHING to do with size boiler that is required. And of course, NOTHING to do with the heat loss.
They said, after being at the house once before, that they wanted to come back and be sure that our heating needs were not higher than the boiler could provide. His rational was that the lf of heat piping would tell how close the sizing was- and if it was too close, he would need to do a full heat loss calc - but that he thought heating was not as much an issue as the indirect need. He was also basing (I think) on the fact that we have no issues with current boiler, we have new insulation and new windows (thanks to a lead contamination issue still not completely resolved).

But I agree and thats why I did my own heat loss calc.!!!
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: