Outdoor Reset?

Reply

  #1  
Old 09-24-08, 08:41 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 140
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Outdoor Reset?

We are having a Buderus G115 boiler and a Buderus indirect DHW tank installed in a new home. Fuel source is oil($$$) I don't think that an outdoor reset is being installed. With having the indirect hot water tank, would I see much benefit from installing one?

The boiler is direct vented using a Field Controls direct vent system.

Thanks for any help...
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-24-08, 09:35 AM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,459
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yes you will see a benefit from outdoor reset. Particularly if your boiler is sized to the indirect water heater, which is typically the larger load by a factor of 2-3. Speaking of which, is the boiler sized correctly? Short primer on outdoor reset:
http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/OM01.pdf

The Buderus control package is the Logamatic. It's a very good one, and IMHO, well worth the cost for the long-term benefit/efficiency. Also simple to install and set up.
http://buderus.net/OurProducts/Contr...1/Default.aspx

Another option would be using a Taco PC-700 reset control, plugged into one of their switching relays or zone valve controls with the -EXP designation.
http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/Fil...2(102-097).pdf
 
  #3  
Old 09-24-08, 10:09 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 140
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the info Xiphias...

I have no idea if the boiler was sized correctly...I will do a heat loss calc. myself to be sure.

There is a Taco switching relay(3 zones) installed, I will check to see if it has the "exp" designation.
 
  #4  
Old 09-29-08, 08:17 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 140
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The installed Taco switching relay is NOT the exp model. And to buy a new exp relay, and the outdoor reset will cost about $400.

I can't seem to find a price for the Logamatic online, but that might be the best option?
 
  #5  
Old 10-02-08, 07:54 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 1,901
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
my utility room is on the south side of the house...ive read the taco PDF above and they recomment north...besides not wanting this box on the front of my house, it would be difficult to wire there since i have no basement to run the wires and crawlspace access is difficult

so in winter would the sun beating on this really mess it up? I do have a lot of trees but afternoon sun would be hitting the box directly
 
  #6  
Old 10-02-08, 10:57 AM
Who's Avatar
Who
Who is offline
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 2,175
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Actually, if you have a LOT of solar gain, it's good for the sensor to also get some solar gain, otherwise the outdoor reset curve ends up higher than it needs to be for optimum efficiency.

Many houses coast with a bit of t-stat setback during the midday anyways...

Key thing is just to be aware that if the sensor gets too much solar effect (in comparison to the house), the resulting water temperatures may not be warm enough to heat the house.
 
  #7  
Old 10-02-08, 12:27 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,459
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RedHouse View Post
The installed Taco switching relay is NOT the exp model. And to buy a new exp relay, and the outdoor reset will cost about $400.

I can't seem to find a price for the Logamatic online, but that might be the best option?
The Logamatic is a very nice control, and will do more in terms of boiler performance (e.g., purging after DHW calls, controlling firing cycles, ability to add an indoor sensor to further tune the system for increased comfort and savings, automatic setbacks, etc. etc.). It probably costs a fair bit more than the $400 it would cost for the -EXP and the PC-700.

IMHO, it would be worth the upgrade. It's a purpose-built control by Buderus for their boilers. http://buderus.net/OurProducts/Contr...0/Default.aspx
 
  #8  
Old 10-02-08, 12:36 PM
Who's Avatar
Who
Who is offline
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 2,175
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I think Logomatics might be in the $1200 range, but YMMV.
 
  #9  
Old 10-02-08, 03:31 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,459
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Canadian? Thought they went about US $750, but that was a while ago. Feebay's got one for $799....
 
  #10  
Old 10-02-08, 04:02 PM
Who's Avatar
Who
Who is offline
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 2,175
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I thought I saw $1200 or 1250 mentioned on the wall... maybe that's the adder for an install of it with a boiler.
 
  #11  
Old 10-02-08, 04:03 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 140
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
$750 I could live with if it's that much better. I think I am going to do without an outdoor reset for this heating season. I'd like to see what our oil consumption is going to be, and have that for future comparison. Plus, I just found out we have a big iron problem in our water that needs to dealt with.

Thanks for the help!
 
  #12  
Old 10-03-08, 06:07 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 1,901
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
redhouse made me think of something. Would it be better to go this year with just the new boiler and see how much oil i save then come back here and figure out how much more i would save with the ODR? Or since i'm in PA would the ODR absolutely give me a payback worthy of the few hundred (plus install of course)?

I know you guys are good with this stuff but to be honest i'd probably pay a pro to install it to make sure it's done right. so i'm guessing 600-700 based on labor etc.
 
  #13  
Old 10-03-08, 06:38 AM
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 36
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Logomatic 2107 - for $563.13

I just recently purchased and installed the Buderus Logomatic 2107 for $563.13+tax. Brand new from Fugerson, NJ. At the same time I purchased G124X for $1,529.18+tax.
 
  #14  
Old 10-03-08, 11:08 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 1,901
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I just called the boiler company direct to ask them about heat loss/ODR etc. They dont come out and do the heat loss etc, just make the boilers, but the guy there was very helpful.

He did say that many older homes had baseboards around all exterior walls even if they didnt need them. And that certainly the opportunity would be there for someone to just come in and measure the baseboards and oversize. Which is what my 2 dealers did. So of course heat loss is best

he also informed me that beckett has a reset as well but said that it doestn need a sensor outside. But it does adjust the upper temp limit as necessary. So how can it do that without an outside sensor? I didnt question him because i had taken up enough of his time on the heat loss question. He said the cost for the beckett was about 350
 
  #15  
Old 10-03-08, 01:07 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 1,901
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
talked to the guy that would actually be installing my boiler. He said he doesnt like ODR because he's seen too many go bad (sensors). He did say when they work they work well though. That if the sensor malfunctions or sun hits it and reads 70 out but it's really 20, that the water wouldnt get hot etc.

he's never installed one and said he just is going by what he's seen and heard from the field.

he also said it's just one more thing to go wrong and he doesnt like adding stuff like that.

he wouldnt refuse if i wanted one, but i could tell he's not a fan and from what you guys on here told me, it's something i could do myself anyway and save money. So i guess i have a decision to make down the road. Thank goodness it can just be added later if need be.
 
  #16  
Old 10-03-08, 01:58 PM
Who's Avatar
Who
Who is offline
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 2,175
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
So how can it do that without an outside sensor?
We're probably talking about the Beckett Heat Manager. We have theories... but those of us who got too close to the truth simply vanished! LOL

It's a black box. It's not an outdoor reset, and it can't store BTUs for you, to help the run times without affecting comfort.

Oh oh... they're heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 
  #17  
Old 10-03-08, 02:54 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,459
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I loved it. It was much better than 'Cats'. I will see it again and again.
 
  #18  
Old 10-05-08, 03:40 PM
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: new york
Posts: 18
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Outdoor Rest vs Intellicon HW

A typical outdoor reset from Tekmar with installation will cost over $1000, it typically is too complicated for the DIY to install and takes several visits from the technician to get it to work accurately. In it's day, the Tekmar was the best thing out there, However for about $250 and the simplicity of installation, I would go with the Intellicon HW+. It's the latest generation of boiler management and a heck of lot more sophisticated then the Tekmar.....Besides, the Intellicon's mfg. guarantees at least 10% savings in fuel use or the cost is refunded. The return on investment is typically less then 6 months, so its well worth a shot.... www.intelliconcontrols.com
 
  #19  
Old 10-05-08, 05:39 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
Northman, please provide references to substantiate the claim made below:

It's the latest generation of boiler management and a heck of lot more sophisticated then the Tekmar...
I'm beginning to think you stand to gain in some way from your glowing reviews of this simple adaptive differential device !?

One itty bitty PIC microprocessor, an op-amp, and a pair of opto-couplers do not make for more sophistication than a Tekmar (or any other manufacturers) outdoor reset module. Yes, I HAVE 'dissected' one...

Additionally, I'd like to hear testimonials from individuals who actually tried to claim it didn't save them 10%, and were successful in proving that claim. The average homeowner has NO WAY of accurately clocking his gas meter or measuring his fuel oil useage, coordinating that useage with degree days, and then presenting that information to the manufacturer in a way that would convice them to refund the money.

I have researched all the claims that have been made regarding savings using this device, and I believe that they are all flawed and biased.

I'm cynical and skeptical, yes. This is my opinion and you are free to differ... I will be installing a unit on my boiler this week and will report on my findings... until th ... . . .
 
  #20  
Old 10-05-08, 06:56 PM
Who's Avatar
Who
Who is offline
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 2,175
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I could see it working well with a setback t-stat but for steadier state operations or milder setbacks, I can't see how it could be as good a ODR.
 
  #21  
Old 10-06-08, 05:48 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 1,901
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Who View Post
We're probably talking about the Beckett Heat Manager. We have theories... but those of us who got too close to the truth simply vanished! LOL

It's a black box. It's not an outdoor reset, and it can't store BTUs for you, to help the run times without affecting comfort.

Oh oh... they're heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
can i assume from your answer that this heat manager is useless?
 
  #22  
Old 10-06-08, 06:27 AM
Who's Avatar
Who
Who is offline
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 2,175
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by luckydriver View Post
can i assume from your answer that this heat manager is useless?
No, I didn't say that, but I did say this.

I could see it working well with a setback t-stat but for steadier state operations or milder setbacks, I can't see how it could be as good a ODR.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: