New Pressure valve Leaking

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Old 10-01-08, 01:24 AM
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New Pressure valve Leaking

Just installed a new pressure relief valve on my oil boiler, and after 3 days it is leaking now. The pressure in my boiler is normally around 10-15* but is hoovering around 25* now.

Why is the relief valve leaking ?

Why is the pressure going up ?
 
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Old 10-01-08, 06:15 PM
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Pressure

I suggest you check your expansion tank. If it is a bladder type tank, the bladder could be bad. If a conventional type without a bladder, it could need draining.
 
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Old 10-02-08, 04:21 PM
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It could also be air still in the system from the shut down/draining. I just worked on my system and I noticed the pressure was up about 10# above normal until I bled the system well. I think air can sometimes cause sort of a block or air lock in the line. It is worth a shot before spending on any parts.
 
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Old 10-05-08, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikegct View Post
It could also be air still in the system from the shut down/draining. I just worked on my system and I noticed the pressure was up about 10# above normal until I bled the system well. I think air can sometimes cause sort of a block or air lock in the line. It is worth a shot before spending on any parts.
Well, I drained the system down a little bit to take the pressure off, then turned the water on and fired up the system. It held at 12-15# for a couple days, now it is on the rise again. ( 25# )

Don't know if that means there is air in the system, it is over filled, or the tank is bad ...

Just bled the system! Lots of air in the zones, since it was bubbling in the sump bucket like crazy. Will see if that cures the problem or if it is something else.
 

Last edited by 2dogs2; 10-05-08 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 10-05-08, 07:47 AM
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Excess air in the system will not cause too much pressure. Usually it actually HELPS with excess pressure because the air acts as extra expansion space. The system may not heat properly due to the extra air, but it won't cause overpressure.

Why did you change the relief valve in the first place? Because it was dripping? And changing it did not change the overpressure problem, correct?

What was the pressure in the system BEFORE you changed the relief valve ?

You need to take a good look at your expansion tank... read Grady's post ... tell us what kind of expansion tank you have, the type with a bladder that looks like a propane tank for a gas grill ? or the older conventional style strapped to the ceiling above the boiler ?

Two other things that may cause high pressure...

A leaky feedwater regulator valve... you can check this by setting the boiler to 12-15 PSI and closing the manual feed valve for a few days. If the pressure stays, then that valve may need replacement.

If you are heating your domestic water by means of a coil inside the boiler, there may be a small leak in that coil that is slowly leaking domestic water pressure to the boiler system.

My bet is on the expansion tank though, tis the season ya know... look at all the other posts with the same problem you have right now...
 
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Old 10-05-08, 12:32 PM
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My tank is an Amtrol 110

I changed the relief valve cause it was dripping after I opened it to drain the system to replace the trebidator .

The pressure on the Van Wert boiler w/domestic coil was usually around 5-15#

Since I purged the air from the zones, it is sitting around 5# has not moved, and the heat is defiantly running.

I'm going to keep checking, and watching.. I have a new tank sitting here just in case. (model 30)
 
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Old 10-05-08, 03:44 PM
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Yeah, that happens with old relief valves... you open them to test them and then they drip drip drip ... so it's a good thing that you've taken care of that. I like to see them replaced at least every 5 years or so just on general principles.

FIVE PSI is WAY TOO LOW !

The MINIMUM should be 12 PSI.

And when the boiler gets hot, perhaps as much as 8 PSI higher.
 
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Old 10-05-08, 09:33 PM
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I know it is suppose to be 12#, but usually by the time I get done with work, then farm work, I just don't have the ambition to pull out a tire gauge to check the pressure in the tank.

I'll try and do that during the week, if the pressure don't rise much. Just have to find my hand pump to put air in the bladder if it needs it.

Thanks.
 
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Old 10-06-08, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post


If you are heating your domestic water by means of a coil inside the boiler, there may be a small leak in that coil that is slowly leaking domestic water pressure to the boiler system.
Well, it is up to 18# this morning.. I'll have to check it when I get home from work and see where it is..

How do you know if the domestic water is leaking without wet spots on the floor?
 
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Old 10-06-08, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 2dogs2 View Post
Well, it is up to 18# this morning.. I'll have to check it when I get home from work and see where it is..

How do you know if the domestic water is leaking without wet spots on the floor?


Well after getting home it is now at 25# ...
 
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Old 10-06-08, 03:45 PM
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Hi Dogs... you still haven't told us what kind of expansion tank you have, but I might infer that it's a bladder type by the fact that you said you have a new one sitting there... a 30 ...

So, which is it ?

Did you read my post #5 in this thread ? If you get a slow creep upward on the boiler pressure, there's a good possibility that the feedwater regulator is leaking ... and I said to turn off the manual valve for a few days to determine if this is the case. After you turn off the manual valve, allow the boiler to cool... when it is cool, open a drain on the boiler and let a little water out to drop the pressure back down to 12-15 PSI, then for a few days watch the gauge and see what happens. If you only are getting the upcreep of pressure when the feedwater valve is open, that regulator needs changing.

Do you have an internal coil in the boiler for your domestic hot water ? didn't answer that either... if you do, in answer to your question, it will be leaking to the INSIDE of the boiler, and you won't see any puddles.

I stated that 5 PSI on the BOILER PRESSURE GAUGE was too low. You don't need a tire gauge to check this... just look at the gauge. The tire gauge is only for adjusting the air pressure in the tank. You should not attempt to measure the pressure in the boiler with a tire gauge on the tank. It's not the same thing.

Might I suggest that if you are too tired to do this stuff yourself, that you might wish to call a technician ?
 
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Old 10-06-08, 03:51 PM
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By the way... you can NOT adjust the air pressure in a bladder tank properly if there is ANY pressure on the water side of the tank. There are several recent threads that explain exactly how to adjust the air charge. You MUST have near ZERO pressure in the boiler when you adjust the tank pressure.
 
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Old 10-06-08, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
Hi Dogs... you still haven't told us what kind of expansion tank you have, but I might infer that it's a bladder type by the fact that you said you have a new one sitting there... a 30 ...

So, which is it ?

Do you have an internal coil in the boiler for your domestic hot water ? didn't answer that either... if you do, in answer to your question, it will be leaking to the INSIDE of the boiler, and you won't see any puddles.
I did state below the current tank I have is a AMTROL MODEL 110. I do believe it is a bladder style.

I'm guessing the boiler does have internal coil don't know for sure since it is old.
 
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Old 10-07-08, 03:04 PM
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Ooops, my bad. I saw Amtrol and thought that was an indirect water heater... no, the 110 is your expansion tank, and more.

What I said about adjusting the pressure in the expansion tank does NOT apply to your particular system.

It is also your feedwater valve.

And, the way that you increase the pressure in the boiler is to add air to that expansion tank. Allow the boiler to cool down and hit it's minimum pressure and then simply add air to that tank until the pressure in the boiler goes up to 12 PSI. It's easier than if you had a separate feed valve and expansion tank. That tank by the way is a SPECIAL DESIGN, and you can NOT use any old off the shelf tank to replace it. You MUST use the AMTROL replacement tank for a FILLTROL system. There is a 'plunger' inside that tank that operates the feed water valve. If you use a standard tank, you will not be able to get water into the boiler because the plunger mechanism will be absent.

It's still possible that the filltrol valve is leaking through, so do the test with the manual shutoff valve.

You can easily tell if you have the internal coil for heating the house water. Where is your water heater ? If there's a separate water heater in the home, you may not have a coil. If you do have a coil, there should be a round plate on the boiler with bolts all around, and two pipes going in and out. Cold in on one side, hot out on the other.

Do you have a camera ? Can you take pictures and post them on a photo-hosting site?
 
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Old 10-07-08, 03:33 PM
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Yes, I shut the system down and drained it down about 2 gal after shutting off the water going to the filltrol valve.

It went up to 12# and so far it is stable. I will monitor the pressure and see if it goes up any further.

The spare tank I just bought is another Amtrol/Extrol Model 30 tank but without the filltrol. If that is indeed the problem, I'll have to tank it back for one with a valve.

Yes, it does make my domestic hot water, just never took the back of the boiler apart to see what it looks like. The system is OLD, I think 1972...


Thanks..
 
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Old 10-07-08, 03:48 PM
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You won't find the proper replacement tank at the 'big box' stores. You will probably have to go to a real supply house, and they may have to order it for you. Expect to pay lots more $$$ for that tank.

You may need to do a little more to properly diagnose your problem in light of the fact that you have the filltrol on your system.

First, you need to know if you have enough air in your existing expansion tank. What I would recommend is this:

Let the boiler cool all the way.

Close the manual fill and drain water from the boiler until the pressure is down around 5 PSI (you did say earlier that you have seen it that low, and this means that you probably don't have enough air in the tank). You need to drop the pressure in the boiler to a point BELOW 12 in order to determine if you need air in the tank. I'm sure you do...

Slowly open the feed water valve and watch the gauge. You should see the pressure level off and stop climbing after a few minutes. The pressure that you see at this point is the same as the pressure in the expansion tank. That's how the filltrol system works. The pressure in the system 'balances' the pressure in the tank.

If it levels off below 12 PSI, then you need to add air to that tank, until the pressure in the boiler is 12-15 PSI.

THEN, close the manual feed valve and monitor the pressure.

You could well have TWO problems here. Low air charge in the tank, AND a leaky fill valve.
 
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Old 10-07-08, 11:21 PM
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Well, the water to the Filltrol has been off for 10 hours, and the pressure in the system is 14#. I'll have to check it when I get home from work at 3pm.

I'm guessing that with a closed system it will be OK without the water feed for 24 hours?

Hopefully, it will stay at 14# .. Then I'll have to run to the local supply house and swap the tank I have for one with a filltrol, and just replace both at the same time and be done.


Thanks.
 
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Old 10-07-08, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 2dogs2 View Post
I'm guessing that with a closed system it will be OK without the water feed for 24 hours?
If you need the water feed, you have issues. Best thing is some sort or low pressure safety switch or a low water cut-off and then leave the feed off.

A bad leak with the feed on can flood your house. Dry-firing a boiler isn't a picnic either.
 
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Old 10-08-08, 04:02 PM
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I think what Who is trying to say is that running with the water feed closed is OK as long as you don't spring a leak. If you DO have a leak, and lose enough water, you run the risk of the boiler firing dry... which will destroy the boiler, and possibly burn down the house. You don't want that.

If it were mine, I would take this opportunity to ditch the filltrol and install a standard bladder type tank on an air scoop, and a standard feed water valve with a backflow preventer. But it's your call, and certainly less work replacing same-same...
 
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Old 10-26-08, 08:46 AM
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Well, after tapping the filltrol valve gently once or twice the pressure has stabilized between 8-10# , and has been steady there for a week now.

I still have a new water valve and expansion tank waiting, if the pressure screws up again.


Thanks...
 
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