Fuel Oil tank piping

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Old 10-23-08, 06:33 AM
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Fuel Oil tank piping

Ok I'm removing an under ground fuel oil tank and replacing it with a new tank I've placed in my garage.

My garage is at the same level as my boiler but the tank is approx 40' away from the boiler.

I'm hoping to run a single line system up from the tank and attach it to the bottom of the joists and run it over the 40' to the boiler and then down approx 8' to the boiler. I'm hoping to achieve this using the tigerloop, does anybody know if this will work?

Is there any type of material I can use besides flex copper pipe due to the cost?

This is the burner on my boiler.
http://www.weil-mclain.com/downloads...b/qb180300.pdf
 
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Old 10-23-08, 08:52 AM
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The problem I see with running the tubing overhead is if your oil tank ever runs dry, an air lock would be formed and the burner pump might not be able to create enough suction to pull the oil through the air gap created in the overhead piping. I guess this is why oil lines are always are at ground level.

I would not scrimp on copper piping. There might be alternatives like steel or plastic, but they might void your home owners insurance if an oil leak or some other catastrophic event related to your heating system occurs.

I had the same dilemma when I was wiring my electric boiler.
I was seriously considering using 100 amp aluminum wire, but finally gave into copper wire when I considered the fact that insurance companies are always looking for reasons to void claims.
 
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Old 10-23-08, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by reno1962 View Post
The problem I see with running the tubing overhead is if your oil tank ever runs dry, an air lock would be formed and the burner pump might not be able to create enough suction to pull the oil through the air gap created in the overhead piping. I guess this is why oil lines are always are at ground level.

I would not scrimp on copper piping. There might be alternatives like steel or plastic, but they might void your home owners insurance if an oil leak or some other catastrophic event related to your heating system occurs.

I had the same dilemma when I was wiring my electric boiler.
I was seriously considering using 100 amp aluminum wire, but finally gave into copper wire when I considered the fact that insurance companies are always looking for reasons to void claims.
Gottcha, I think I'm ok with running the copper after looking into prices.

I guess my main question is about the distance. Does that seem reasonable since I have NO alternative than to run overhead with a single pipe system.
 
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Old 10-23-08, 03:10 PM
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You can run them overhead... and yes, use copper tubing... minimum of 3/8" ... I don't see any reason to use 1/2" ... use only FLARE FITTIGS! Do NOT use compression fittings! You will need to buy a good flaring tool if you don't already have one.

Your local building codes may specify that you must use tubing with a plastic secondary containment coating on it. Check to be sure because you don't want trouble down the road. They may also require the use of "Firomatic" valves at strategic locations. These valves have a stem that melts in the event of fire and closes the valve.

Use some form of insulation on the tubing, in order to prevent abrasion. Don't screw it down tight so it can't move.

Practice using the flaring tool on scrap pieces of the tubing before you use it on the real thing. You need to get a smooth clean face on the flare.

The problems you may run into with overhead lines is that initially, your pump may not be able to pull enough vacuum to 'prime' the line. It 'should' be able to, but may not... so, you may need to get flow started with a hand pump.

All the fittings must be absolutely air tight. The minutest of air leaks can cause the lines to lose prime. The Tiger Loop is pretty much a must in the case of overhead lines. If you have an air leak, what you might find happening is that you get the burner running good, then shut it off for a few hours, and when the next heat call comes along you'll have air. Keep an eye on the Tiger Loop when the burner is firing, you will SEE if you have air getting in.

Consider installing an 'Oil Safety Valve' (google it for more info), that will shut off the oil supply and prevent the tank from siphoning out in the event of a leak in the lines. You may also find that this is a code requirement. (some guys detest OSVs ... say they are more trouble than they are worth, but I'll take a little trouble over 250 gallons of oil siphoned out of my tank while I'm away at work!)
 
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Old 10-23-08, 08:02 PM
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Oil line

It sounds like you will be fine with the set up you describe. I do suggest using an OSV & Firomatic even if local codes don't require it. The coated copper is usually not required unless the tubing will be underground or in contact with concrete but again, check with the local authority.
 
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Old 10-24-08, 07:24 AM
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Guys thank you so much!

I'm going to order the Tigerloop and OSV right now.
 
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Old 10-24-08, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
It sounds like you will be fine with the set up you describe. I do suggest using an OSV & Firomatic even if local codes don't require it. The coated copper is usually not required unless the tubing will be underground or in contact with concrete but again, check with the local authority.
When you say Firomatic what exactly are you referring to?
 
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Old 10-24-08, 02:01 PM
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The Firomatic is a shut-off valve with a soft metal handle which will melt away in case of fire and the valve closes.
With adding a firomatic valve, OSV valve lift and 40' of run watch your vacuum. You cannot exceed 12" See site page.
http://www.comfort-calc.net/Fuel_pump_vacuum.html
 
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Old 10-24-08, 02:08 PM
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Fire-o-matic

Sorry, that's a trade name often used genericly to describe a shut off valve with a fuseable handle. The purpose is to shut off the oil in case of fire. Here's a picture:
http://www.highfield-mfg.com/oilvalv...LV1/104cf.html
 
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Old 10-24-08, 04:06 PM
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I believe you will receive one Firomatic valve with the Tiger Loop kit ... that one must be installed at the Tiger Loop... you should probably also install one at the tank...

Read the instructions on the OSV carefully... they should not be installed more than 3' above the burner level (or the lowest point in the system).

I had an argument with an inspector once... he insisted that the valve needs to be not more than 3' above AND not more than 3' AWAY ... which is total BS ... I eventually won.
 

Last edited by NJT; 10-24-08 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 10-24-08, 07:46 PM
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Sweet, I got 1 fireomatic valve, one tiger loop with fireomatic type valve, and one OSV.
I'll buy the fitting and tubing from my local plumbing supply store.

They wanted $180 for the basic tigerloop so I ordered it and the above items from Patriot supply.
 
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Old 10-25-08, 06:27 AM
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With the new tank, lines and all, you can place the extra firomatic along with an oil filter right at the tank. Out of the bottom of the tank, standard shut off valve, oil filter, firomatic, then the line up and onto the joists to the burner.

Some Tiger loops come with an integral filter. If the one you purchased does and the old filter is in good condition (most are as they are steel cans with a cast iron lid), then use the old one at the tank. Only need a standard felt type filter there.

The filter at the tank keeps the sludge out of the line. And with a valve before and after the filter, can shut both off when changing it.

Al.
 
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Old 10-27-08, 06:01 AM
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The "new" tank I'm installing is a slightly used tank and it is currently piped through the top of the tank.

Would it be better to pipe it though the bottom of the tank?


Originally Posted by OldBoiler View Post
With the new tank, lines and all, you can place the extra firomatic along with an oil filter right at the tank. Out of the bottom of the tank, standard shut off valve, oil filter, firomatic, then the line up and onto the joists to the burner.

Some Tiger loops come with an integral filter. If the one you purchased does and the old filter is in good condition (most are as they are steel cans with a cast iron lid), then use the old one at the tank. Only need a standard felt type filter there.

The filter at the tank keeps the sludge out of the line. And with a valve before and after the filter, can shut both off when changing it.

Al.
 
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Old 10-27-08, 07:56 AM
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I believe out of the bottom of the tank is best. Along with a filter at the tank. The reason is that this allows any water, sludge, or other junk to leave the tank and be disposed of.

Water in the tank is the worst thing that can happen. Causes the tank bottom to corrode. It can enter via condensation in the warm months on a partially filled tank, along with getting a fill-up when it is raining out.

The bottom tapping allows it to drain out. Some installs have two filters at the tank. The basic General 1A-25A's. The first being an empty cannistor as a sludge pot, with the second filter having a filter element in it.

At this time I only have a single filter at the tank. And use it with a filter element. If it gets sludged up quickly then I'll add a second filter and leave the first one empty.

Al.
 
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Old 10-27-08, 08:05 AM
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Ok great, I guess I'll close up the lines and go from there. Do I want to tilt the tank as well?
 
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Old 10-27-08, 08:18 AM
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Yes, sloped toward the outlet. According to Granby (a tank manufacturer), using legs with a 1" difference in length provides the proper slope (11" at outlet end with 12" legs at the other end). They follow up with the slope being 1/4" per foot of tank length toward the bottom outlet.

This is for their 120 to 330 gallon steel tanks.

http//www.granbytanks.com

Al.
 
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Old 10-27-08, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by OldBoiler View Post
Yes, sloped toward the outlet. According to Granby (a tank manufacturer), using legs with a 1" difference in length provides the proper slope (11" at outlet end with 12" legs at the other end). They follow up with the slope being 1/4" per foot of tank length toward the bottom outlet.

This is for their 120 to 330 gallon steel tanks.

http//www.granbytanks.com

Al.
The tank I have came with short legs, I'll make sure to pick some new ones up when I do the install.

The tank has some oil in it (30gal) that was there for about 2 yrs and the tank was totally sealed. What should I do with the oil?

Thanks again for all the help!
 
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Old 10-27-08, 04:15 PM
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Tank Legs

The leg lengths mentioned in Old Boiler's post are just examples. As long as the legs are 1" longer on one end than the other, that's the important part. As far as the existing oil, drain some into a contatiner. If it has no water or sludge, use it. If water or sludge is present, drain until it cleans up & use the rest.
 
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Old 10-27-08, 04:41 PM
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cool, thanks for all the help.
 
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Old 11-29-08, 06:25 AM
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What are these components? tiger loop and an OSV
 
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Old 11-29-08, 07:37 AM
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Tiger Loop is a brand name of a device called a 'Fuel Oil Deaerator' ... it installs in the fuel line, near the burner and removes any air or gas bubbles in the fuel oil.

OSV is an 'Oil Safety Valve' and it will close a valve on the fuel line in the event of a leak in the oil pipes between it and the burner.
 
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Old 11-29-08, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
Tiger Loop is a brand name of a device called a 'Fuel Oil Deaerator' ... it installs in the fuel line, near the burner and removes any air or gas bubbles in the fuel oil.

OSV is an 'Oil Safety Valve' and it will close a valve on the fuel line in the event of a leak in the oil pipes between it and the burner.
So the OSV would be the same as a Firomatic?

Is the Fuel Oil Deareator about the size of say a 1" galv. pipe coupling?
 
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Old 11-29-08, 02:03 PM
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No, a Firomatic is a different animal ... that type of valve will close when a fire melts the soft metal valve stem. It's spring loaded and will close in a fire.

OSV closes in the event of a leak downstream...

Tiger Loop looks a little like R2D2 ... google for a picture of one.
 
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Old 12-02-08, 03:39 AM
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Thanks for the info NJ Trooper
 
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Old 12-03-08, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by reno1962 View Post
I would not scrimp on copper piping. There might be alternatives like steel or plastic, but they might void your home owners insurance if an oil leak or some other catastrophic event related to your heating system occurs.
I'm going to have a tiger loop installed on an overhead run and in the contract it says flexible tubing. There may be copper used at some point but i'm honestly not sure and i didnt think to ask him until i read this thread. Overall it's at least a 25-30ft run

The job will have a permit pulled for it but now that I'm reading this thread i'm wondering as long as it's done to code, am i safe from an insurance perspective?
 
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