Weil-Mclain Mod Con Boiler Locks Up


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Old 11-02-08, 04:00 PM
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Weil-Mclain Mod Con Boiler Locks Up

Just installed WM Ultra 3 105 boiler about three weeks ago. Things have been working fine for two weeks. However, in the last week the boiler locked up three times. The error message is "Supply too fast." Is this some thing that is easily solved? I tried to call WM. However, they will not entertain calls from home owners.

GEEVEE
 
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Old 11-02-08, 04:10 PM
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I'm modcon stupid ... Supply Too Fast ? ... the manual don't tellya what that means ?

Maybe it's measuring the Delta T across the heat exchanger, and it's not enough ? making it think there is too much flow through the boiler ?

Did you happen to notice my last comments on your photos ?

The question about the purge tee being in a partial position ? In normal operation, that valve should be wide OPEN.

And that ball drain on the left of the heating loop ? the one that is OPEN in the picture which should be CLOSED during normal operation ?
 
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Old 11-02-08, 04:15 PM
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Supply too fast

I think it does mean the flow rate in the boiler is too high. Could be related to valve settings. Can't maintain it's Delta T target ... mostly guesses... and googles ...
 
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Old 11-02-08, 04:41 PM
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Who ...

On second thought, and more reading, maybe it means that the SUPPLY temperature rose TOO FAST ... I think that's CODE 25 ?

Which might indicate that a pump is NOT pumping ...

I think WHO might have these codes memorized... he'll be along soon .
 
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Old 11-02-08, 05:52 PM
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NJ, it does mean the water temperature rose to quickly. It has to do with flow. What is restricting flow? How is it piped. NJ you mentioned Geevee had pic's. Do you know if they are still around?
 
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Old 11-02-08, 06:57 PM
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Rbeck: Here is the thread on my installation.

http://forum.doityourself.com/boiler...ld-boiler.html

NJ Trooper: The purge tee valve is wide open. The ball drain on left side in now kept closed. The boiler circulator is running. The following are the temparature readings when the lockout condition occured the last three times.

System supply 115 150 144
System Return 152 164 154
Boiler Out1..... 158 172 160
Boiler Out2..... 156 170 159
Boiler In......... 142 153 151
Flue1............. 159 173 141
Flue2............. 159 171 140
Outdoor......... 40 40 42

I hope this helps

GEEVEE
 
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Old 11-02-08, 07:32 PM
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Typo ?

How can the return be hotter than the supply ?
 
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Old 11-02-08, 09:07 PM
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If it's not a typo, is it possible that you've got the wiring crossed between the two sensors ?
 
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Old 11-02-08, 09:44 PM
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No Heat

[edit: poster started new thread, same message]
 

Last edited by NJT; 11-03-08 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 11-10-08, 06:20 AM
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Did you ever figure out why it was locking out. I have the same problem with mine. It goes to lockout with an error message about supply too fast. I noticed that it happened when heating zone is on and then the domestic goes on to priority. The unit resets itself after a minute and everything works fine then. Anyone have any ideas??
 
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Old 11-10-08, 02:10 PM
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Piping, sizing, flow, sonsor error to name a few.
I am stuck on Pictures, pictures, pictures today.
 
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Old 11-10-08, 02:32 PM
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rbeck, the album with his pictures, pictures, pictures starts here:

Image of The Complete Picture - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
 
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Old 11-10-08, 05:32 PM
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Problem Solved

NJ TROOPER was right on the money. I had the sensors crossed. The setup has been running fine for a week. Thanks for your help.

GEEVEE
 
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Old 11-10-08, 06:34 PM
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Ok this is a picture of the install allmost complete (note that one zone has no piping going to it and the blue flex pipe is just for a temp feed to the outdoor shower.
All piping is 1" for the primary and reduces down to 3/4" for the zones. The only thing that I can think of that is a little unconventional is that I piped the heating zones off the top of the boiler and the DHW off the bottom. I called Weil Mclain about this prior to doing the installation and they said it wouldn't be a problem.

I have about 20 feet of 1" pipe between the boiler and the domestic hot water tank with 10 1" 90's, 2 ball valves and a taco 0011ifc pump. I checked the pump curve for the 0011ifc and I should be getting enough flow.

I also checked the error codes for the boiler and it seems that it's going out on the call for DHW.

Any ideas?


http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/IMG_1381.jpg
 
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Old 11-10-08, 08:26 PM
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Maybe...

just a wild guess...

When a zone is calling, hot water flowing ... and the DHW calls ... that 20' of 1" pipe has a good size 'slug' of cool water in it ... maybe the slug is being detected by the sensors ... and generating the error message.
 
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Old 11-11-08, 03:16 PM
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Ok I reset all the diagnostic error counts and I'll wait and see if I can track it down to exactly when it happens. It doesn't lockout on every call for DHW so it's kind of difficult to find out what the problem is.

All the digital supply and return temps on the boiler seem to correspond to what is on the analog gauges.

I also don't think that 20 feet of pipe is too excessive, 10 feet there and 10 back.

My gut feeling is that on the initial call for DHW, it's drawing in some hot water from the heating zone and raising the "supply temp too fast" Thats why it it only seems to be happening when the DHW gets a call after the heat is on.
 
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Old 11-11-08, 03:33 PM
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I wouldn't put a whole lotta stock on those 'error messages' being very specific ... lookit GEEVEE's case ... he got the same message, and the sensors were reversed ! The return was hotter than the supply ... they may generate the same error message for a number of conditions ...

Maybe that message is generated any time any one of the sensors changes too quickly ... cold to hot ... hot to cold ... return hotter than the supply !

But, there are two lockouts on your guyz'z boilers, 'soft' and 'hard' lockouts ... It seems that yours is a soft lockout because it's resetting itself, but GV's was a hard lockout I believe ?

So it seems that the same error message can apply to a number of conditions / problems ...
 
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Old 07-24-09, 01:58 PM
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July 24, 2009 - Suppy too Fast WM S3 155

July 24, 2009 - WM Series 3 155
Boiler installed May 2009.
Have same problem. Happens about 1/week. Contractor and
WM rep here. WM rep suggest install changes, addt'l piping,
third and larger pump for indirect h20 heater, move sensors
further up pipe.. Also suppled new control board for boiler.

NO LUCK. All that was done and still had the problem.
Directed my contractor to this forum for research.
Contractor and WM rep due here nex Friday.

Interesting that the original posting for this forum string is
Sept 2008 and still the WM guy had nothing definitive
to fix it.

According to my manual, when the supply water temp rises faster than 2 degress F/second, a counter is incremented.
When that counter reaches 5, the boilier is locked out.
Resetting the message, resets the counter and unlocks
the boiler.

.....and the beat goes on
 
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Old 07-24-09, 02:11 PM
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I believe there is a new board and/or a firmware upgrade to address this.

You could also try setting the pre- and post-purge times to 90sec. I think the default is 30.
 
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Old 08-17-09, 05:02 PM
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I wish I got paid for every time a "Rep" sat in front of his product and scratched his head.

Most of the time it ends up being a stab in the dark guess.(Or what he thinks may be the unprovable manufacturing defect) He then sends a new boiler and away we go.

 
 

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