Help with no heat-air in baseboard


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Old 01-03-09, 08:46 PM
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Help with no heat-air in baseboard

Hi guys I'm new here and I need help. I have a gas fired boiler with 2 zones.The 2nd floor zone is getting no heat and 1st has some air.Pressure on gauge is 14 lbs hot. I could post a detailed diagram of the system if someone could explain how.My computer skills are not that great.thanks Mike
 
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Old 01-03-09, 09:10 PM
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Mike, assuming that the gauge is accurate (and it may not be) 14 PSI HOT is probably too low.

You can set up a free account at Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket and upload pics there. Provide us a link to the album and we'll take a look-see.

Pictures of the system itself are always helpful and welcomed.
Take some from far enough back that we can relate the closer ones so we can get the 'big picture'.

I'm gonna guess and say that the expansion tank needs an air charge or replacement (if a 'bladder' type tank... looks like a propane grill gas tank hanging from the pipes) or is waterlogged and needs draining (if it's a steel compression tank strapped into the joists above the boiler).

You may also have a problem with the feedwater pressure regulator.

There's tons of posts here lately with instructions on how to charge the tank (if a bladder type) ... so save me some typing and try the search box to see if you can find ...
 
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Old 01-03-09, 09:37 PM
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Thanks NJ . I'll post pics tomorrow I'm not home now. The tank is a bladder type.
 
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Old 01-06-09, 03:31 PM
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boiler pics

here is the link to the pics of my boiler. thanks again Mike tywebbmc - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
 
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Old 01-06-09, 04:59 PM
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Mike, thanks for the pics... they _almost_ tell me what I need to know... having a little trouble following the pipes around though, but I think I can see enough.

Does the pressure gauge CHANGE from cold to hot? It's not 'stuck' at 14 PSI, correct?

What happens when you lift the lever on top of the feedwater regulator (pressure reducing) valve? Can you hear water feeding into the system?, or see the pressure gauge increasing?

It's important before we continue that you are able to get water back into the system... cuz yer gonna hafta drain some to check the pressure on the tank.

Were you able to locate the instructions for checking/adjusting the tank pressure?
 
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Old 01-06-09, 06:55 PM
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The pressure gauge does work. I tried bleeding the system by isolating the upstairs zone.I turned the boiler off at the breaker-opened the 2nd floor zone valve and [edit: CLOSED] the [edit: GREEN HANDLED] ball valve below the zone valves on the return side, pic 11, opened the boiler drain valve below the zone valve and the valve on the regulator. Got very little pressure.It seemed like there wasnt enough pressure to push thru the boiler.It seemed like the water that was already in the return side drained and then nothing. To check if there was any pressure I opened the ball valve again ,pic 11,and the water flowed up and thru the drain valve.How much pressure should I have when I lift the lever on the valve.when I opened all the valves to try to bleed it didnt seem like the pressure changed when I lifted the lever. watts valve set 12-15 range 10-25.I didnt find the instructions for checking/adj tank pressure. By the way in the pics from top to bottom on return side-air vent at ceiling pic 13-zone valves-drains-screw shutoffs-down into ball valve and regulator.On out side into exp tank then splits into zones-pics 6&7
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-06-09 at 07:27 PM. Reason: mike, are my edits above correct?
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Old 01-06-09, 07:11 PM
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You should get a pretty good flow of water when you lift that lever ... should definitely be enough to push the water up and over ... I think that's the first problem.

Lemmee look at the pics again ...
 
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Old 01-06-09, 07:19 PM
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Don't do this yet, as it does appear that the feed valve is NG. But save this for future reference...

1. Turn off boiler and allow to cool to 100F or less.

2. Close manual feedwater valve.

3. Drain only enough water to drop boiler pressure to zero. Do NOT completely drain the boiler!

4. Check tank for 12-15 PSI air charge, adjust if necessary.

5. Check that boiler pressure is still at zero.
NO, open drain again until zero in boiler, and go to 4.
YES, continue.

6. Re-open manual feedwater valve and verify that it pressurizes
boiler only up to 12-15 PSI. If it goes higher, or not high
enough, the feedwater regulator is going to need service/replacement.
 
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Old 01-06-09, 07:34 PM
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Pic 6 shows one of the ball valves on the supply side CLOSED. They should be open when you are trying to purge the zones. It won't hurt to close the one that you are NOT purging, but if you closed the wrong one, of course you won't get any flow.

Otherwise, it sounds as though you were doing it right... I'll re-cap just to be sure:

1. Turn off boiler and let cool to 100F or less.

2. Close green handled ball valve on pipe below zone valves.

3. Connect drain hose to zone you wish to purge, and manually open zone valve.

4. Open drain and lift lever on regulator valve.

Water should flow through boiler, up through zone, and out the drain. Let run until free of air.

BUT, if your feedwater valve isn't feeding, this won't work, and that is probably why your pressure is low and no heat on upper zone.

If you follow the water line back, behind the water heater, there should be a manual valve somewhere on that line. Are you sure it's open?
 
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Old 01-06-09, 07:56 PM
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Yes that was the first thing I opened.That ball valve is closed so I dont pull anymore air into the 1st floor zone. I hope
 
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Old 01-07-09, 02:30 PM
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Ok then, I guess the next step is either to replace, or have replaced the pressure regulator ... if you are sure you aren't getting any water through it ... can't do anything without water.

Then when that's done, check the air tank charge before refilling the boiler, adjust if necessary, replace tank if it won't hold an air charge ... or if you get any water out of the air valve ...
 
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Old 01-07-09, 04:04 PM
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Thanks NJ. I'm going to try to replace the feedwater reg tonight if I have time.I'll report back later.
 
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Old 01-07-09, 06:28 PM
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Also get rid of those automatic air vents on top of those return lines. They can suck air in. Leave the one on the air separator.
 
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Old 01-07-09, 06:54 PM
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Thanks rbeck I'll do that too.I also noticed another problem-the 1st floor zone wont open unless the 2nd floor is calling for heat. Whats up with that?
 
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Old 01-07-09, 10:04 PM
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Quickest easiest way to get rid of the air vents is to simply screw the caps down tight.

If the first floor zone valve won't open unless the 2nd is calling has to be a wiring error somewhere ...

Push the 2nd floor stat all the way down, and the 1st floor stat to call for heat. You're saying it won't open the 1st floor valve? Now push the 2nd floor stat up to call for heat, you're saying BOTH valves now open?

Have someone else do the t'stats while you observe the valves.

OR, will the first floor valve open when it's stat is turned up, but NOT FIRE the boiler ? That's a different problem... so we need to be very sure before suggesting a fix.
 
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Old 01-08-09, 06:46 PM
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It does open the zone but it doesnt turn on the circ or fire the boiler. That zone valve was also stuck closed when I got home today.Stat was set at 69 and it was 66 in the house.Went out and picked up a new feedwater reg and zone valve. Too cold tonight to shut boiler down. Also screwed down the caps on the air vents.
 
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Old 01-09-09, 08:18 PM
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Changed the feedwater reg and the 1st floor zone valve, bled the system -got heat-no air in pipes. Feedwater reg was bad. I'm guessing that the switch in the zone valve was bad because the stat would open the valve but not fire the boiler or circ.When the boiler got back up to temp the pressure was at 25-26 lbs so I bled water out down to 22@180. Got a little seeping out of the air vent on top of expansion tank but it stopped. The buttom of the tank stays cold so I think the bladder is ok. Thanks for all your help NJ. I also just noticed a buzzing noise from the aquastat when there is no call for heat.Is this normal -never heard it before.
 
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Old 01-09-09, 08:28 PM
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Thing about letting water out when the boiler is hot is that it's gonna go back in when the boiler cools... the regulator will keep the minimum pressure at it's setpoint.

If you are getting more than an 8 PSI pressure swing, now that you can get water into the system, check that expansion tank air charge. I'll bet a winter lager it's low...

The buzzing you hear in the aquastat is the internal transformer. They do that... I wouldn't worry about it... I bet you can't hear it from more than a few feet away.
 
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Old 01-09-09, 08:53 PM
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Now I'll have something to do when I get snowed in tomorrow.
 
 

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