One Zone Hammer on closing?


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Old 01-03-09, 08:47 PM
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Smile One Zone Hammer on closing?

Hello all I'm new here and looking for some advice with this problem, I will relate the events as best I can recall.
Some years back I had my one zone system divided into several to help deal with solar gain spring and fall. One zone wasn't in use until recently when I reinstalled the fin after studding out the wall. this year we installed a buderis boiler and
new circulating pump a 3 speed grunfos operating on low. The new zone banged when it closed. (really loud) I read back on this site and a member called old grumpy (I think) made reference to a zone vale in backwards. This one is, my question is can I disassemble it and turn the valve around in the housing? or do I need to cut it out to turn it around. as you can tell I haven't taken it apart yet. The other thing I found reading was about water speed not exceeding 4 fpm or noise results and this zone is noisy, how best to slow the water, I have ball valves at the heater can I limit water speed by closing one partially? thanks in advance for your help.
Kelly
 
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Old 01-03-09, 09:17 PM
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Kelly, you probably have to cut out the valve and turn it around. Take a look for "REPAIR COUPLINGS" at the local HD or LOWES. If you cut the pipe a ways back from the valve you can slip these couplings onto the pipe, turn the whole valve with the pipe stubs around, slide the couplings down and re-solder. Wrap damp rags around the valve to keep the body from overheating, and get in and out with the heat as quickly as possible to avoid damaging the valve guts.

Noisy? as in sounds like a waterfall in the pipes? That's probably not an issue with the velocity, but with air in the pipes. There's lots of posts recently dealing with the same problem... did you install any air bleeders on the baseboards when you installed them?
 
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Old 01-04-09, 08:13 AM
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Smile air in line

Hi There!
yes there's a scrubber I think it's called in the heating loop and an air bleed on the boiler it self, the interesting thing is the other zones are quiet this one sounds more like swishing, I should mention that the others have taps at the heaters that I'm
told are for balancing the system, would they also slow the water in those loops? yes all baseboards and the new loop have manual bleeders and have been bled. (the scrubber takes a lot of the work out of that. we added it in round two.
Just for my education regarding the zone valve, does the water movement slam the valve closed causing the hammer, periodically I will be around a valve when closing and it will kind of hiss when closing. (the water makes this sound) like a soft close for lack of better explanation.
inquiring minds need to know!
Thanks for your help with this
Kelly
 
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Old 01-04-09, 09:24 AM
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Kelly, can you show us some pics?

scrubber, separator, scoop ... same same ...

Which zone valves ? Honeywell, Taco, Erie, other?

free account / www.photobucket.com / upload there / provide link here...

It helps if we can see what we're working on...
 
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Old 01-04-09, 11:58 AM
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Pics and info

Well this is all new for me hope this works ok!
here is link... I think Kelly's Pics

meant to mention earlier Zone valves are erie AG13A02A oops!
Thanks
Kelly
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-06-09 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 01-04-09, 05:22 PM
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Kelly, you need to set your album up so that it is public... unless you wanna give away your password... can't see the pics ... private album ...

OK now...
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-06-09 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 01-04-09, 09:54 PM
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Unhappy Pics and info

Sorry about that, you should be good to go now!
Kelly
 
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Old 01-06-09, 06:47 PM
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OK... first thing I noticed ... a quote from the install for the valves:

The valves can be mounted in horizontal or vertical piping. When installed in horizontal piping, the actuator must be above the valve body. Refer to Figure-5. When installed in horizontal piping the actuator can be tilted left or right but it must not be tilted below 85° from vertical.
and this is good to know ... hopefully not too late?

Do not solder with actuator in place, or with paddle against seat, as the heat can damage the unit. Before soldering, move the manual open lever into Open position then remove the actuator from the body. Orient paddle so it is not against a seat.
 
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Old 01-06-09, 07:00 PM
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It doesn't look as though you have enough pipe on both sides of the valve to use the 'repair couplings', unless there is more pipe to the left of the ball valve, and enough on the other side ...

Yer gonna have a fun time with turning that valve around...

I was hoping to see some pics that might let me understand why you have air in the zone ...

If your camera has a "macro" setting, you should use that when taking close-ups to get them in focus ... but closeups don't really do the job here... pull back with the camera and let me see the whole installation ... take a bunch of pics, the more the merrier.

You said there are bleeders on the baseboards... where were they installed? They should be at the DOWNSTREAM ends, where the piping turns to go DOWN. That's where the air will collect when the circulator is RUNNING. It is often helpful to have them installed at the HIGH spots too, that's where the air collects when the system is idle. Bleed the ones at the elbows when the circ is pumping, and the high spots when the circ is off for a while.

Yes, if the valve is installed backwards, it will slam shut rather than close slowly. Often if there is more than one zone running, and only one shuts off, the moving water will/can cause a hammer also.
 
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Old 01-06-09, 08:15 PM
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Hi There!
I should explain, the valve in the picture was for identification purposes the one in question is in the basement ceiling so not real easy to get good pics but I will if req'd. the noise in the loop in question isn't all that loud, as I'm in construction in the basement it's all bare so you can hear water moving but it doesn't appear to be air, we installed a bleeder in the highest point of the line right in front of the valve used to isolate this zone valve for service and bled it several times then again after a few days in service so the system is well purged of air it just sounds like water moving which made me think it might be too fast.
from what you've explained it appears I will have to shut down this zone and cut the tubing outside of the shutoffs for the zone valve, flip it end for end and reinstall which isn't a big deal, I just wanted to be sure that flow from the wrong direction would indeed slam the valve shut. I have the manual lever locked in the open position currently and there is no other hammer in the system so I'm confident you are correct. It will be a while till I can get this done, it's been really cold here but we're due to warm up in three or four days so I should be ok to shut down for a bit then, I will perform surgery and get back to you with results Thanks for all your help sorry for the delays in communication, it takes a bit to get on to new things! : )
Kelly
 
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Old 01-07-09, 02:34 PM
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No problem with the delays... I've got plenty to do myself!

Thing is though, that valve in the pic is installed contrary to manf recommendations too ... I don't know what the reason for their recommendation is, but if they said it, I believe it... maybe premature failure for some reason?
 
 

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