Triangle Tube prestige 110 wont heat one zone!


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Old 01-24-09, 09:00 AM
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Triangle Tube prestige 110 wont heat one zone!

I have just replaced my Heat Maker with a TT Prestige 110.
All zones heat great expect for one. When it calls for heat you can see the temp drop form 180 to around 126 where it will stay until that zone is done heating!

We replaced the following:

Mixing valve
circulator pump
control board
check orifice for correct size

Anything else I should look at?
s/t
 
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Old 01-24-09, 10:07 AM
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What temp drops from 180 to 126?
 
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Old 01-24-09, 04:43 PM
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Why do you have a mixing valve? Is it a radiant zone? If so is the zone pump downstream of the mix outlet? Did you use both the heat & DHW inputs on the boiler and improperly?

Please post pics
 
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Old 01-27-09, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
What temp drops from 180 to 126?
The digital gauge on the unit.

Originally Posted by ZL700 View Post
Why do you have a mixing valve? Is it a radiant zone? If so is the zone pump downstream of the mix outlet? Did you use both the heat & DHW inputs on the boiler and improperly?

Please post pics
They recommended I use a mixing /tempering valve to lower the temperature to ~130.
You running 180 deg. water in your floors?

I'm using the DHW, it and 5 zones will heat and maintain 180f, but when the living room zone calls for heat it falls quick.

The rep is coming out Friday to take a look.
Any guesses what this could be?
s/t
 
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Old 01-27-09, 10:05 PM
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It's a waste of a modcon if you are maintaining 180...
 
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Old 01-28-09, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Who View Post
It's a waste of a modcon if you are maintaining 180...
(Deleted definition - not appropriate material for this site)

I doubt thats what you meant
But that was the first thing that showed up on google (with modcon). Modcon = modern condensing?

Not sure what you mean by maintaining 180....

What best describes your definition:
1. It should never reach 180 while heating DHW or Radiant zones.

2. 180 is not required when in standby.
LMK

s/t
 

Last edited by plumbingods; 01-28-09 at 04:33 AM.
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Old 01-28-09, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SportTruck View Post
(Deleted definition - not appropriate material for this site)

I doubt thats what you meant
But that was the first thing that showed up on google (with modcon). Modcon = modern condensing?

Not sure what you mean by maintaining 180....

What best describes your definition:
1. It should never reach 180 while heating DHW or Radiant zones.

2. 180 is not required when in standby.
LMK

s/t
Modcon = Modulating Condensing
 
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Old 01-28-09, 11:06 AM
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The reason Im running this at 180 is to satisfy my base board heat up stairs.

A little info about this system.
I has 6 zones 2 base board heat & 4 in floor heat.
It has primary/secondary loops with closely spaced ts.

Is a TT 110 large enough to head a 2617 sqft house?
My Hatemaker had no problems maintaining 180. The only other thing I changed is the addition of a primary secondary loops w/pumps & the one mixing valve.
Im stumped.
s/t
 
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Old 01-28-09, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SportTruck View Post
Not sure what you mean by maintaining 180....

What best describes your definition:
1. It should never reach 180 while heating DHW or Radiant zones.

2. 180 is not required when in standby.
LMK

s/t
It should only reach 180 if you absolutely need that to maintain temperatures when the outside temperatures are at their lowest. With the domestic hot water, it can be set at a lower temperature through the week and higher for the weekend. It's all about keeping your return temperatures at their lowest, especially under the 135*F mark so that you boiler can condense and save you fuel and keep your flue temps down.
 
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Old 01-28-09, 06:29 PM
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Won't the lower temperatures reduce my output on my baseboard heat? My room seemed cold the other night. (All zones calling for heat.)
s/t
 
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Old 01-28-09, 09:06 PM
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They will be reduced as the outdoor temperatures increase. Do you want to pulse 180* water through your rads on a mild day or would you rather have them add just enough heat to maintain steady indoor temps?

When your supply is hot and your return gets to warm, you heat up your flue. That's all wasted energy, plus no condensing which is what your boiler was designed especially to do.
 
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Old 01-29-09, 04:15 AM
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I'm not running the out door thermometer at the advice of the person who installed it- says 20deg difference can cut my base board heat 50%.
I can hook it up if its necessary.
Question, If it's hooked up and its very cold it will run full temp? Then only modulate down when warm?
He's pretty sure I need 180* at the base boards.
s/t
 
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Old 01-29-09, 02:33 PM
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I'm not running the out door thermometer at the advice of the person who installed it- says 20deg difference can cut my base board heat 50%.
Boy oh boy does the heating industry ever need a shot in the 'continued education' arm ...

That is EXACTLY what it's designed to do!

MODULATING- when the outdoor temperature gets colder, the temperature of the boiler water is increased, depending on how it's programmed... there are settings that determine what temperature water the boiler produces based on the outdoor temperature.

CONDENSING- the exhaust flue gases are condensed to extract the extra 10% of latent heat energy that normally just flies out of your exhaust vent.

Lemmee ask a question based on the 'apparent' knowledge of your installer. Did he install a CONDENSATE DRAIN? is there a NEUTRALIZER on that drain?

By the way, I believe the boiler WILL go to high limit (180) on a DHW call... IF it's properly piped and wired... no worry there.
 
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Old 01-29-09, 02:37 PM
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If you get 100% heat out of your baseboards with 180*F supply water, at 160*F you'll get over 75% according to SlantFin.

The ODR controller is a great feature... shame to waste that functionality.

Anyway, trust your installer if you wish. He isn't paying your gas bill.
 
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Old 01-30-09, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Who View Post
If you get 100% heat out of your baseboards with 180*F supply water, at 160*F you'll get over 75% according to SlantFin.

The ODR controller is a great feature... shame to waste that functionality.

Anyway, trust your installer if you wish. He isn't paying your gas bill.
Thats a far cry from 50%.

Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
Boy oh boy does the heating industry ever need a shot in the 'continued education' arm ...

That is EXACTLY what it's designed to do!

MODULATING- when the outdoor temperature gets colder, the temperature of the boiler water is increased, depending on how it's programmed... there are settings that determine what temperature water the boiler produces based on the outdoor temperature.

CONDENSING- the exhaust flue gases are condensed to extract the extra 10% of latent heat energy that normally just flies out of your exhaust vent.

Lemmee ask a question based on the 'apparent' knowledge of your installer. Did he install a CONDENSATE DRAIN? is there a NEUTRALIZER on that drain?

By the way, I believe the boiler WILL go to high limit (180) on a DHW call... IF it's properly piped and wired... no worry there.
I've been asking about the ODT I just may hook it in myself.

The rep is coming out today, we will see what he has to say about the missing ODT.

Yes the DHW heats fine (180*) no problem & hooked correctly.

It's not supposed to drip on the floor?- J?K I'v got a drain but no neutralizer, I inquired about one from the TT dealer and he called to find nothing available at the local supply shops.
I want one and considered making one from crushed limestone. But read it will develop a film on the stones and become less effective (not reliable).
Can you recommend one that I can order. I seen one on the net that tell you when it's expired. Is that what you use?
s/t
 
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Old 01-30-09, 11:06 AM
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I just use a big U shaped one I made out of 3" ABS and filled with several gallons of crushed marble.
 
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Old 01-30-09, 03:05 PM
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That's funny ... "drip on the floor" ...

I don't use one either, but that's because I don't run a modcon, too much rocket science for me. My condensate 'drain' is a 6" double wall pipe through the roof, and I drain my condensate into the atmosphere while still in the vapor stage!

Seriously, you NEED a neutralizer! that acid WILL corrode yer drain pipes! Get yerself a pool water PH tester and see for yourself how acidic it is... then, after the neutralizer is installed, use that same test kit to occasionally monitor the PH to verify the neutralizer is doing it's job...
 
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Old 01-30-09, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
That's funny ... "drip on the floor" ...

I don't use one either, but that's because I don't run a modcon, too much rocket science for me. My condensate 'drain' is a 6" double wall pipe through the roof, and I drain my condensate into the atmosphere while still in the vapor stage!

Seriously, you NEED a neutralizer! that acid WILL corrode yer drain pipes! Get yerself a pool water PH tester and see for yourself how acidic it is... then, after the neutralizer is installed, use that same test kit to occasionally monitor the PH to verify the neutralizer is doing it's job...
I know, I did the ph test on the 3rd day I had it running! It showed a 2. I have it draining on the ground outside with pvc.
s/t
 

Last edited by SportTruck; 01-30-09 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 01-30-09, 07:27 PM
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After the rep showed up, they called TT and asked them what was going on. After a bunch of tests they suggested my circulator pump was too small. I went and picked up bigger unit and got it installed.
Besides it being a bit noisy (humming) it seems to be doing the trick. But it's nice and warm here now so it's not much of a test.
I'll keep an eye on it for the next few days and see how it preforms.
s/t
 
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Old 01-31-09, 08:17 AM
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new pump update

Well the unit will reach 180 but takes a long time to reach it.
I tried putting it in high fire mode with a temp @ 158*. 3 minuets later it's at 160* Another 3 minuets = 160*

I've been watching this thing/ playing with high fire mode a few times and have come the the conclusion that this thing is just too small.
The larger pump helped, but the unit is running high all the time! So will I have a condensing operation?
I'm thinking it would be better to have a bigger unit that can modulate down once the return temp is up to a manageable temp.
I had two zones calling for heat and after about 4.5 hours it reached 180* I put a small room on for heat and it dropped to 150* and is still heating @ 9:15 am. The main zone is sastifyid so just the two small zones are calling for heat.

With the smaller pump it had no problem heating these zones. Now with the bigger pump it's not as affective?
This is why I think the boiler is too small.
s/t
 
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Old 01-31-09, 08:30 AM
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What was the calculated heat loss?

I have a 110 and I could probably heat the houses on both sides, although we might need sweaters if the temp got to 0*F outside.



Go to SlantFin's web site and get the hydronic explorer. Take that and to the best of your abilities do a room by room heatloss. If you get stuck on anything, come back here because there are many that can help you with this.

That'll quickly give you an idea of what the overall load is and also how the radiation in each room/space matches the loss.

If it is poorly matched, my first recommendation would be to set and forget the t-stats, since any recovery from a temperature setback will be very unbalanced.
 
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Old 02-01-09, 06:20 PM
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I had to dredge up an old computer to load that program. But I'm wondering if this will really tell me anything.
It's not a situation where it won't heat my house. It can't heat the return water to 180! I have great solar gain during the day, R30 in the exterior walls, R38 in the ceiling.
My slab's temperature is 85*.
Yes, if I was trying to heat a uninsulated drafty barn, it wold require a bigger boiler. But to heat the same barn to 70* the floor would need to be very hot.

My house will over heat with solar gain and usually requires no heat until ~ 3am when it finally cools down.
I think square ft the house with the amount of radiant lines feet should rally determine the size of the boiler.

IE; If I had a radiant heat in my garage 23x45 and I only had one loop running around my parameter. It could run on a small boiler as it only needs to heat one run of 3/4 line to 130*. Right?

But If I had the same floor area with tubes spaced 6 in apart then the small boiler may not keep up due to the water circulating back being too cold and the BTU's not enough to heat it to 130* (or 180* on the primary loop).

Yes the calculator or will tell me I need the giant unit to heat my uninsulated garage but will it really require it? If it can reach 180* primary/130* secondary the bigger unit will just be bigger and short cycle.

Am I missing something?
 
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Old 02-08-09, 03:51 PM
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Can someone explain if I'm wrong in my thinking about this heat loss issue?
s/t
 
 

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