general question about arcoliner
#1
09-19-09, 07:32 PM
general question about arcoliner
I have a american standard arcoliner series 1BTJ2 with a economite model E20A burner which was converted from oil to gas many yrs ago (over 11yrs) since it was that way since I moved in. it has been running the past 11 yrs with no problems but this year I opened the front doors to look inside and noticed the removeable metal plate on top on the fire box had a hole in it. So my first question is what is this plate called ? and whats its purpose? and is it still avaible? I was thinking about trying to find a piece of fire brick that size to put in there.
Last edited by NJT; 09-21-09 at 06:06 PM.
#2
09-21-09, 07:44 AM
That is called a baffle used to distribute heat to the outside toward the iron for improved thermal transfer.
I wouldn't be looking for a replacement I would be looking for some to replace the boiler. The old Arcoliners had very big flue passes and their efficiency was terrible. I bet you are less than 55% AFUE. These old boilers had tremendous standby losses. A new boiler properly sized would save you probably around 50% on your fuel. Better ROI than anything else you can invest in today. Many Arcoliners were designed for coal, converted to oil and than to gas.
I wouldn't be looking for a replacement I would be looking for some to replace the boiler. The old Arcoliners had very big flue passes and their efficiency was terrible. I bet you are less than 55% AFUE. These old boilers had tremendous standby losses. A new boiler properly sized would save you probably around 50% on your fuel. Better ROI than anything else you can invest in today. Many Arcoliners were designed for coal, converted to oil and than to gas.
#3
09-21-09, 04:37 PM
I second those thoughts, but you know were gonna take some 'flak' from OldBoiler! He fabricated a new baffle for his boiler from some plate steel... and lots of other stuff too... I expect he is gonna weigh in here shortly!
You could cut standby losses pretty dramatically by adding a vent damper, in the event that a new boiler is financially out of the question right now.
You could cut standby losses pretty dramatically by adding a vent damper, in the event that a new boiler is financially out of the question right now.
#4
09-21-09, 05:15 PM
That is true trooper but the huge flue passes are still an issue when it is running. He would also have to put bricks in them to help reduce the size of the flue gasses. The new boilers have much more fire side heating surface compared to the old boilers.
#5
09-21-09, 06:04 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys... I was reading some of "rbeck" old posts and thinking about giving the one fire brick per section a shot. Was also thinking about going to sid harveys which is not far from me and see if they could match up the plate.
My goal is to have this boiler replaced in the future but right now it will have to do unless it leaks or dies on me.
My goal is to have this boiler replaced in the future but right now it will have to do unless it leaks or dies on me.
#6
09-22-09, 06:30 AM
Heard my name, I'm here. The plate is also referred to as the crown sheet. For some reason, I think the ones on the Arcoliners slide in. Not bolted in like the Oakmont boilers.
Replacing the baffle (crown sheet) lowered the flue temperature quite a bit. Then used the firebrick trick to adjust it. Don't lower the flue temperature too much when chimney venting. Otherwise it will condense in the chimney.
Should use a temperature meter in the flue for the final adjustment. Someone in the past posted a picture of the bricks in their Arcoliner (mikeevens maybe?), there is 3 small bricks upright in the front. One in front of each passageway.
Al.
Replacing the baffle (crown sheet) lowered the flue temperature quite a bit. Then used the firebrick trick to adjust it. Don't lower the flue temperature too much when chimney venting. Otherwise it will condense in the chimney.
Should use a temperature meter in the flue for the final adjustment. Someone in the past posted a picture of the bricks in their Arcoliner (mikeevens maybe?), there is 3 small bricks upright in the front. One in front of each passageway.
Al.
#7
09-22-09, 07:18 PM
The crown sheet is the part of the above the fire not the baffle. The exiting temperature must be at least 350f entering the chimney. I will tell you Sid Harvey's will not have that product as it was boiler specific.
#8
09-23-09, 05:32 PM
Was thinking that this is the baffle that alyo123 was referring too. The one that sits above the firebox?
Where's the little guy holding up the sign stating "this thread needs pictures"?
The piece I replaced is above the fire which I found out later is called a crown plate (or crown sheet, can't recall). I was calling it a baffle for lack of knowing.
Al.
Where's the little guy holding up the sign stating "this thread needs pictures"?
The piece I replaced is above the fire which I found out later is called a crown plate (or crown sheet, can't recall). I was calling it a baffle for lack of knowing.
Al.
#9
09-23-09, 08:14 PM
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The plate sitting in the firebox is a baffle. A crown sheet is a pressure part of a boiler that is the top of the firebox. See this image for details.
#10
12-20-09, 01:56 PM
I have a similar Arcoliner
My oil man recommended that I put in a couple of firebricks in upper chamber to keep the heat down.
Never gave much more info. He thinks it is great boiler because it is easy to clean. I saw photo Old boiler refered to.
It looks like three splits that are broken in half lenghtwise not full size firebrick. Is the point to block the large rectangular holes forcing air to pass over fins. Or just slow down the flow by creatiing turbulence
Looks like a stonehenge model. Is the horizontal chunk important.
Would like to try it but not sure how to adjust it
My oil man recommended that I put in a couple of firebricks in upper chamber to keep the heat down.
Never gave much more info. He thinks it is great boiler because it is easy to clean. I saw photo Old boiler refered to.
It looks like three splits that are broken in half lenghtwise not full size firebrick. Is the point to block the large rectangular holes forcing air to pass over fins. Or just slow down the flow by creatiing turbulence
Looks like a stonehenge model. Is the horizontal chunk important.
Would like to try it but not sure how to adjust it
#11
12-20-09, 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by fredhhh
I have a similar Arcoliner
My oil man recommended that I put in a couple of firebricks in upper chamber to keep the heat down.
Never gave much more info. He thinks it is great boiler because it is easy to clean. I saw photo Old boiler refered to.
It looks like three splits that are broken in half lenghtwise not full size firebrick. Is the point to block the large rectangular holes forcing air to pass over fins. Or just slow down the flow by creatiing turbulence
Looks like a stonehenge model. Is the horizontal chunk important.
Would like to try it but not sure how to adjust it
My oil man recommended that I put in a couple of firebricks in upper chamber to keep the heat down.
Never gave much more info. He thinks it is great boiler because it is easy to clean. I saw photo Old boiler refered to.
It looks like three splits that are broken in half lenghtwise not full size firebrick. Is the point to block the large rectangular holes forcing air to pass over fins. Or just slow down the flow by creatiing turbulence
Looks like a stonehenge model. Is the horizontal chunk important.
Would like to try it but not sure how to adjust it
For the Oakmont here I cut the high density fire bricks with a circ saw and a masonry blade. Note that the American Standard Oakmont boiler has the flue passages oriented differently then the Arcoliner.
Although the brick pieces have the same affect. Lowering the flue temperature.
The bricks (I believe) both slow the flow and create turbulence. I did measure a slight decrease in flue draft with the brick pieces in place. And a large decrease in flue temperature. Although, the desired flue temperature is based on the chimney. Height and location needs to be taken into account.
Al.
#12
12-20-09, 05:18 PM
stonehenge
Hi
I think that stonehedge is mine you were looking at. Adding bricks will effect your stack temp like Old Boiler said. I do not remember how much? I did replace all the broken up pieces with some full and half heavy fire brick. I also believe it helps to slow all the heat from exiting the boiler to quickly and the fire brick will also absorb heat and keep it inside the boiler. I do not think you have to be concerned with an exact placement of the bricks.
I think that stonehedge is mine you were looking at. Adding bricks will effect your stack temp like Old Boiler said. I do not remember how much? I did replace all the broken up pieces with some full and half heavy fire brick. I also believe it helps to slow all the heat from exiting the boiler to quickly and the fire brick will also absorb heat and keep it inside the boiler. I do not think you have to be concerned with an exact placement of the bricks.
#13
12-21-09, 06:38 AM
Mikeeven photos
How about posting some new pictures.
I have both full size and split firebricks. I could easily slip half width into flue passage instead of in front.
Chimney on North outside wall 2 stories high.
I guess I will need flue gas thermo. any recommendations.
My Arcoliner was built in 1964. Looks very similar to yours. .
Links to boiler catalog and replacement chamber reference manual
www.heatinghelp.com/files/articles/927/297.pdf
www.heatinghelp.com/files/articles/929/300.pdf
www.lynnmfg.com/readyref.pdf
I have both full size and split firebricks. I could easily slip half width into flue passage instead of in front.
Chimney on North outside wall 2 stories high.
I guess I will need flue gas thermo. any recommendations.
My Arcoliner was built in 1964. Looks very similar to yours. .
Links to boiler catalog and replacement chamber reference manual
www.heatinghelp.com/files/articles/927/297.pdf
www.heatinghelp.com/files/articles/929/300.pdf
www.lynnmfg.com/readyref.pdf
#14
09-11-10, 08:32 AM
in search of more arcoliner baffle info
Hi Guys:
Just found this thread. My 87 year old mom has a 50 year old Arcoliner heating her home. Some of the hints here are very interesting but I don't totally get it. Anyone have a photo of this brick arrangement to decrease stack temperature?
I just posted some pictures of mom's firebox on facebook:
Login | Facebook
I'm now downloading the manuals for which links were provided at the top, maybe they will help me. I fear some of the baffles in mom's are missing but am not sure. My images above show one which is a horizontal plate a little below the top of the firebox below where the exhaust to the chimney is located. This is sagging a bit, but more interesting only extends about 15" forward from the back side (chimney side) of firebox and ends at the middle. Looking at the brackets on the sides of the firebox it may once have continued on toward the front?
Was there another one lower down? Ie how much am I missing.
Any help appreciated. Thanks
Just found this thread. My 87 year old mom has a 50 year old Arcoliner heating her home. Some of the hints here are very interesting but I don't totally get it. Anyone have a photo of this brick arrangement to decrease stack temperature?
I just posted some pictures of mom's firebox on facebook:
Login | Facebook
I'm now downloading the manuals for which links were provided at the top, maybe they will help me. I fear some of the baffles in mom's are missing but am not sure. My images above show one which is a horizontal plate a little below the top of the firebox below where the exhaust to the chimney is located. This is sagging a bit, but more interesting only extends about 15" forward from the back side (chimney side) of firebox and ends at the middle. Looking at the brackets on the sides of the firebox it may once have continued on toward the front?
Was there another one lower down? Ie how much am I missing.
Any help appreciated. Thanks
#15
09-11-10, 09:19 AM
update url to arcoliner images
sorry, the previous link I posted apparemtly requires you to be a facebook member cause I guess it has edit privileges? Anyway I think the one below works for everyone without a login:
arcoliner | Facebook
arcoliner | Facebook
