Utica Steam boiler

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Old 09-20-09, 05:53 PM
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Utica Steam boiler

I have replaced my 70 year old boiler, with a new utica. I had some clown hook it up. The return lines dosent seem to have enough presure to reach the boiler. The return line is staying full and blocking steam to 2 of my reaiators. also the presure gauge never moves????NEED HELP.......
 
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Old 09-20-09, 06:19 PM
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Residential steam heating is somewhat of a lost art. Dan H. refers to the steam experts as the "dead men."

Have you called back the person that did the most recent work?
Doug
 
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Old 09-20-09, 06:42 PM
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there has been only one guy working on it..he dont know jack..it using all existing pipes.
 
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Old 09-20-09, 06:47 PM
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if you have any sugestions they would greatly be appriciated......
 
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Old 09-20-09, 06:49 PM
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Don't be confused with the pressure gauge not reading any pressure. The best operating system is one that does not create pressure but unfortunately most boilers will produce pressure.
If the returns are slow or blocked they need replaced. Could you get some pictures?
For proper steam piping see this link.
It should look like this
Steam Piping Tutorial
Here are things not to do.
Steam Piping Don'ts
 
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Old 09-20-09, 07:00 PM
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how do i send you pictures?
 
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Old 09-20-09, 07:17 PM
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You can post them to Photobucket.com. Please e-mail me a copy as I am on my way to Indiana in the Am and will not be able to see them on Photobucket until late.
 
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Old 09-20-09, 07:25 PM
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did ya get them? I sent them to your email you sent me.
 
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Old 09-20-09, 09:22 PM
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zipp, post the photobucket link to your album here, in the forum, that way rbeck can go on his trip, and others may be able to help!
 
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Old 09-21-09, 07:28 AM
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Flight delay....go figure.
I have found four issues, system riser and equalizer are switched around and the hartford loop nipple too long. Another issue is the vertical risers do not have swing joints, no room for expansion. I also would pay arrention to possible surging.
Here is a link to Zipp's pictures on photobucket.
Pictures by rbeck1953 - Photobucket
 
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Old 09-21-09, 02:08 PM
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Thank you for posting the pictures and pointing out what might be the problem. Greatly appreciated!!
 
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Old 09-21-09, 02:40 PM
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now i got to try and figure out how to fix it.
 
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Old 09-21-09, 05:38 PM
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This is what the guy that installed has said when I explained that it was not working properly and that I had asked around about what the problem might be. Should I go with what he says, or can you guys walk me through the fix it process?


Everyone has there own version of doing things there are many roads to take to a destination and the'll all get you there, there is no issues with my piping, further I matched existing and followed the directions that where supplyed with boiler.There where no swing joints in the old piping ? I didn't see any in the old system, I did the job correctly and had I spent the full 3-4 days I had quoted these issues could have all been avoided. the pressure should be between 1/2 to 1 lb not at five so you should turn down. as far as the Hartford loop it is done correctly.....
 
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Old 09-21-09, 06:05 PM
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The only thing I can say about his comments is proper steam boiler piping has not changed in 100 years. Apparently what was there was wrong and he needed to fix it and then skim the boiler water. The boilers today make steam much faster than the old ones did and that is where the problems can come from today as compared to yesterday.
I looked up the Utica I & O manual and attached the link. Their drawing is as I have specified. The new steam boilers do not have as much steam chest as the older boilers so the steam needs to be dried in the near boiler piping. Todays steam boilers must be piped as shown in the manuals to achieve the 98% dry steam as required by code for the manufacturers.
http://www.ecrinternational.com/secu...cument/278.pdf
 
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Old 09-21-09, 06:36 PM
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i just spent 3 hrs skimming the boiler properly...thanks..now when i run it the presure comes up to 1lb where it set to shut off..does this every 5 minutes. but the boiler did not call for more water. the water in thr glass jumps about an inch or so, but never really fell. Do i need to move the supply in between the 2 verticles. and shorten the loop? does it matter that the pipes coming off boiler only run vertically? diagram shows them running horzontal also? what will happen if it runs the way its set up now?
 
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Old 09-22-09, 04:20 PM
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?

dont give up now.. im just figuring this lost art out. Im gonna fix it myself. i would like to have a little more clarity to ensure it wont have to be done a third time.
 
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Old 09-22-09, 05:44 PM
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I'm 'steam stupid' myself... but,

Between rbecks notes on the pics, and Figure 5 in the manual, you should have a pretty good start...

rbeck, isn't that return line on the smallish side?
 
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Old 09-22-09, 07:16 PM
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Trooper it appears to be 1-1/4" which is OK. A 1-1/4" return will carry 1100 sq ft of radiation which is probably more than than this boiler can produce.
Zip what is the model number of the boiler.
The system riser does not go between the boiler risers. It goes where the equalizer pipe is now and the equalizer goes where the riser is.
The hartford loop needs to be shortened.
The boiler riser needs a swing joint which means to elbow over to allow for expansion.
How was the boiler sized? It really short cycles. Do you have air vents on the end of the main steam lines? Are the steam mains insulated?
 
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Old 09-23-09, 07:00 AM
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model # peg150cide........i know what your saying is simple...however im still not totally clear. i shout take the 90 that goes down to the return and turn it facing up. then connect from there to my supply? then the 90 that leads to mu supply now should be turned and then piped from there to where the i turned the other 90 and go down to return? i have 6 radiators on the first floor. i live in a 2400 sq' 2 story house. i put new air valves on the radiators. they have a really small hole for air release. they constantly or blowing off with droplets of water spurting out entire time boiler is running. my old vlave had 3 much larger holes for venting.i will put pics of radiators and valves in photobucket this evening.
 
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Old 09-25-09, 04:58 PM
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water

im still playing, got it all working.. alot of it was it was never skimmed proper..im still skimming it..will the water ever be perfectatly clear???????????????????????
 
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Old 09-26-09, 07:02 AM
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hello?

Have i been deserted? Anyone out there?
 
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Old 09-26-09, 07:30 AM
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Not everyone is awake and on the computer on Saturday morning. Weekends are typically a little slower around here.
 
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Old 09-26-09, 07:40 AM
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y not..

I guess some people have a life...not me got 3 kids and an old lady..boiler has been a really cool learining experience. never thought so many factors were involved. guess i need to find a good book on the subject.
 
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Old 09-26-09, 09:01 AM
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I don't have a life either, and I'd be helpin' ya if I knew anything about steam more that that stuff is HOT! But since ya be lookin' for a book, this one is often recommended:

Heating Help

Holohan is a good writer... not overly technical, not overly simplistic... a very good start for a steam owner.
 
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Old 10-01-09, 05:55 PM
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cycle time

How long should the boiler run after it turns on?
 
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Old 10-01-09, 06:01 PM
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Wise-a55 answer? Long enough to make steam and satisfy the thermostat!

I dunno... 15-20 minutes from cold start?

How long IS it running?
 
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Old 10-02-09, 05:34 PM
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i think it running good. got many hours watching the damn thing, its like my new best friend. changed the thermastat to 5.5. after the house is up to temp it runs for 5 minutes. but now the thermastat is set at 68. Its 70 in the house and it kicks on?
 
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Old 01-03-10, 09:58 AM
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Utica gas fired Steam Boiler..less than year old

Have the teck coming again on Monday to see if he can figure out what's wrong: here is a copy of an email I sent him some days ago:
Josh/Matt,
Please email or phone me at [phone # deleted] re: questions I have on "next steps" to get this boiler operating properly. I don't have all the dates,of contact/service but I am sure your office has them in the records...they are always helpful when I call!

Your crew installed a Utica on Jan 2nd, 2009 ..Great job and it was a long day for all the helpers...I think at one point there were 5-6 people working on it. Matt was on the original crew and I think he really knows what he is doing!

I called you in Mid-Oct to discuss my concern that the site Glass was totally full..at that time you asked if any Clunking...not then

Matt came out on 10/24...cleaned the automatic Low water cut-off and the unit operated well for about 3 weeks.He also said that he thought the unit needed solvent/chemicals added and a regular Service Call.

I called for service as the unit site-glass was again full and Major clunking started... a couple of appointments were canceled by your office as everyone was sick with the Flu... no problem with me on that and it's understandable.

Thomas came at some point and totally disassembled the site glass and the pipes going into the top and bottom of the site glass...added solution and said he would talk to matt about "next steps."...Contacted me several days later and we set up another appointment to come out.

Thomas came yesterday (Sat) and drained unit...added more solution and left...I don't think he fired up the boiler before he left to see if clunking continued .I was upstairs and he didn't tell my wife what we needed to do for next steps. We have kept the heat low so the unit only kicks on at 63...sort of chilly here.

The net is...when boiler fires up...clunking starts and the water in the site-glass goes from about 7/8's full to empty and then refills when burner stops.
I think there is still a problem and need to know what I should do and what else needs to be cleaned/fixed before we ruin this unit.
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-03-10 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 01-03-10, 12:16 PM
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Not sure what yer lookin' for from us ?

Please, no personal contact info on the forum.
 
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Old 01-07-10, 09:05 AM
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Utica Boiler problems

NJ Tropper, thanks for the heads up on my posting that had my phone # listed.First time I have used this site and forgot to remove my # when I copied to my posting.I have contacted the Utica Boiler Co. (ECR) and a tech did get back to me explaining what to try to eliminate the "water hammer". Tech coming back on Friday to try more cleaning of piping outside of the boiler itself. Dick
 
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Old 01-07-10, 04:01 PM
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Dick, keep us posted as to what is determined... in the meantime, if you would like to take a bunch of pictures of the install, you can set up a free account at Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket and upload them there. Come back here and drop a link to your album.

We may be able to spot some piping problems that you could discuss with the techs...

It sounds to me as though you have 'slow returns', where the water is going to steam, up to the rads, and then not making it back to the boiler in time... or there could be problems with the way they piped the equalizer or the hartford loop...
 
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