Need new boiler...so some Qs


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Old 10-09-09, 05:11 PM
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Need new boiler...so some Qs

Hello All,
New to this Forum/Site and have some questions.
My Burnham furnace of 1979 viintage,93000BTU Rating has just died from old parts...I need the auto relight,the capillary tube and the ignitor and Keith Supply said the parts are unobtanium...So I want to replace the boiler with a Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 110...I have a Monoflow Hydronic loop and Monoflow Tees...The system has worked well on the old boiler and I want to know if it will allow the TT boiler to work efficiantly also.
I am hoping for a basic swap...the room is there...Chimney vent or side wall venting??
Any assistance is appreciated.
Mike S
 
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Old 10-09-09, 05:48 PM
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Your old boiler is rated at 93,000 Btu/hr. Is that the input or output? Anyway, if that boiler has been doing the job, it still may be oversized. On the coldest day of the year, was the burner running constantly? If so, good! Otherwise, get or perform a heat-loss calculation for your house.

Your existing monoflo system is fine - it won't affect overall efficiency, one way or the other. And even if it did, what would you do - rip it out?
 
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Old 10-09-09, 06:27 PM
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What type of radiation do you have in the home? Have a heat loss done and compare to the amount of radiation to best determine the boiler used.
If you need higher water temp choose a good cast iron boiler with outdoor reset and if you can heat with lower water temp use a mod/con.
You need to then decide if you want the higher maintenance or lower maintenance boiler.
 
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Old 10-09-09, 07:57 PM
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new boiler

The current boiler is an older Burnham...It was manufactured in 1979 and installed in 1979 or1980...My wife and I purchased our house 20 years ago...the boiler needs to be replaced.
And to answer the question as to what I would do if the Mono system was a problem???
I would do what I have to do...Who wouldnt??
I have almost 40 years experience in the building trades...and I am no stranger to hard work.
I also know the value of asking peopple that know more than I for their advice!!!
Thank you for answering my question as to the serviceability of the Mono block system.
It allows me to go to the next step...which is doing the Heat Loss calcs and figuring the proper size of the boiler...
I am leaning to the TT ...and polssibly the Weil Mclain...I want a 95%er...and I want the tax credit..and I want to go with the DHW option for the boiler..
Thank you for the input...and please keep them coming!
Mike S
 
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Old 10-10-09, 08:53 AM
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...and I want to go with the DHW option for the boiler.
I sure hope you don't mean you want a tankless coil in the boiler for supplying domestic hot water. In my opinion tankless coils are the WORST option available for domestic hot water. Get an indirect water heater or a stand-alone water heater.
 
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Old 10-10-09, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by furd View Post
Get an indirect water heater or a stand-alone water heater.
Are you burning gas? If so, I think a standalone, gas water heater would be a better option. That way, you can shut down your boiler completely in the summer.
 
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Old 10-10-09, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Speed 30 View Post
Are you burning gas? If so, I think a standalone, gas water heater would be a better option. That way, you can shut down your boiler completely in the summer.
I would take the TT over the W-M Ultra any day of the week. Too many variables and unknowns with the aluminum heat exchangers (TT is stainless, Ultra is aluminum), IMHO.

However, I'll offer a different take than Mike above. I would choose to have one combustion appliance (a boiler) doing both jobs, rather than have two separate combustion appliances.

Making DHW in the summer gives your boiler something to do, so it doesn't just sit idle.

There are also a number of tweaks that can be made to the TT MCBA control for making DHW that allow it to run quite efficiently.
 
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Old 10-10-09, 12:06 PM
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new boiler

The TT unit I am looking at provides the DHW option.
The current water heater we have is about 10 years old..and is a stand alone unit..The TT unit I am looking at (3099.00)offers this as an option...with a 36 gallon Tank for about 1300 dollars...or a 56 gallon is 1500.00!!!
I am looking at 4500.00 just for the units...plus the cost of a new expansion tank,air seperator,etc..
I am also considering the purchase of a manifold so I can add some underfloor heat in the kitchen and bath..The house is one zone...9 radiators(cast)...1600sqft,1.5 stories Cape Cod.Built around 1930...
Thank you again for the assistance
Mike
 
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Old 10-11-09, 09:33 AM
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Boiler replacement

My current boiler is a 30 year old Burnham...it needs a new ignitor,auto restart box...and pilot assy...these 3 parts are no longer available as they quit making the boiler in 95..!!!
The boiler works well and always has...it is a 9300BTU unit...I have 9 radiators..
I used the BIS calculator and my heat loss is 58000BTUs...with current sq footage..
We ahve been considering an addition to the house and when I input those numbers I came up with a 75000 BTU heat loss..
SO I have been looking at the Burnham Alpine..95% AFLU ..and maybe I can omit the Water heating option!!??
decisions decisions!!
Mike
 

Last edited by NJT; 10-11-09 at 07:11 PM. Reason: continuity
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Old 10-11-09, 11:47 AM
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A rather large addition? Adding that much to the heat loss from new construction the addition must be bigger than the original home. New construction heat loss is normally very low. A mod/con boiler will do an good job but you may want to take a look at the ES2 Burnham has introduced that can operate at 110f return water temperature. The system you are talking about is going to be a higher temp system and will drop the efficiency on the mod/con. Add the outdoor reset option and gain about 16% system savings, properly size the boiler and have a lower life cycle cost at nearly the same operating cost.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 12:36 PM
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new boiler

The addition we would like to add would be 3-400sq ft room.
About 25% more sq ftage than we now have...currently our home is a cape cod,1600 sqft,1.5 stories...new Andersen windows(not renewals) ,insulated walls and cielings..but I didnt do the blow in so I dont know the R value..
We have a basement..first floors not insulated.
Installed new glass block windows in bsment last summer.
They are TIGHT!!
Cielings upstairs have about 12 inches of blown in..I am redoing the heat loss for the 95%eff(TT Solo)
Mike S
 
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Old 10-11-09, 03:07 PM
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A 400 sq ft addition should certainly not be adding almost 20K BTU to the heat loss, unless there is no glass in the windows. New construction I would think maybe 6K extra at the most, unless you have a LOT of glass.

The original 58K even sounds high... although those calculators do overstate the heat loss somewhat. I'd betcha a sixpack Beer 4U2 your actual heat loss isn't over 45K, and maybe even less.

You don't need rust inhibitors in a boiler, generally speaking. Once the water is heated a few times, and the oxygen is driven out of that water, the water becomes INERT. Of course if you've got leaks all over the place, and are constantly adding fresh water, with it's load of dissolved oxygen, well, it's gonna rust out. But, if it's correctly installed, no need for inhibitors.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 04:23 PM
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I think I've run into the aternate universe me. I just replaced my Burnham that was put installed in 1983-84. My house is about 1600 sq ft and built in 1928. Not a cape cod though. My house was also one zone. I had the upstairs seprated out for a second zone when the boiler was installed.

I was looking at the Alpine as well for the efficiency. I wound up going with the ES2. From what I picked up from this forum, and on the recommendation of the Burnham rep, a mod/con wasn't going to be worth it. The lifespan of those type of boilers isn't very long. The mod/con's are best suited for systems that use low water temperatures for most of the time. Those would be systems that use radiant floor heating. You wouldn't be getting the 95% effeciency unless the boiler was condensing and that happens with low water temps which would most likely only occur during short periods in the fall and spring.

The ES2 is 85% and will get you the tax break from the feds. Also check for rebates from your utility. Home : ENERGY STAR should help you locate them.

I also had my 50 gallon hot water heater replaced with an indirect tank from burnham. We went with the 30 gallon. It's just me and my wife and so far we have had no problems with running out of water. The indirects heat about twice as fast as normal hot water heaters. If you need more hot water, you can increase the temperature of the tank water quite a bit. Ours is around 130 degress right now and you can go to, I think, 160. Anything over 130 will need a tempering valve put on so you don't get scalding temps at any of the taps. Not a big deal to do.

The ES2 also has the option cards. I have a low water cut off and the outdoor reset in mine. The outdoor reset is going to save you quite a bit of money in addition the 85% AFUE. That will set the water temperature of the boiler based on the current outdoor temperature. My system is programmed to deliver 155F when it is 10F outside. For days that we are having now that are in the 50's, the boiler is temp is 128F. That's how you save in the fall and spring. My old boiler would go up to 180F no matter what. I wish I had it longer so I could tell you what I'm saving.

I recommend HVAC-Calc HVAC Software The Heat Loss Calculator HVAC, HVAC/R, HVA to figure out your heat loss. It costs $50 to use for 2 months. It's very detailed. It will figure out your heat gain as well. So when it's time to get a new a/c unit, you can have that sized properly as well. You want to match the heat loss of your house to the DOE output of the boiler as close as possible. Heat Loss calculation The tech menu at that site will help out quite a bit as well. Lots of info there.

I used Radiator Sizing Guide to help me figure out the BTU output of my radiators. If you can get manufacturer specific info, then do that. It will be more accurate. This step is important when programming your outdoor reset.

I think that's everything I wanted to say. :P I have pictures of my system available if you would like to see it.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 08:05 PM
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new boiler

Well ...I have run the BIS heat loss calculator a few times and actually cheated down for R value...and my heat loss comes out to 45-47KBTUs...
I am suprised..so I am leaning to the triangle tube...Then a good friend calls and says he can maybe get me a great discount ona Lochinvare unit...
DRAT!! this is getting difficult!!!
Can I get some input on the Lochinvare units???Or a web site??
MIke
 
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Old 10-12-09, 12:23 PM
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new boiler

AS my previous post stated I used the BIS on line calc to get the heat loss..
My question is how good is the BIS calculator??
I ran the numbers and it shows I can use a 60000 TTSolo..but would it also be enough to heat the DHW for two girls,Mom and Dad,laundry,DW??
MIke
 
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Old 10-12-09, 03:49 PM
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Mike, LOCHINVAR are pretty nice from what I've heard, but have no hands on experience.

Website? how about Lochinvar :: Home ?

I would think that with 60K you might not get the recovery time you would need on the water heater. It is often the case that the hot water demands dictate the ultimate size of the boiler. My gut tells me that you might wanna stick with the 100K... but my gut (big as it is) is often wrong, so take it with a grain of salt... or a few grains, and some tequila.
 
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Old 10-12-09, 07:41 PM
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Don't forget the lemon.

The Lochinvar Knight uses the same Giannoni heat exchanger that a number of other manufacturers use. Among other things, primary/secondary piping is required with that heat exchanger. Not necessarily required by the TT. The Knight's hx is also a somewhat lesser form of stainless (316) than that used by TT (439). TT also has a different, far less restrictive and somewhat self-cleaning heat exchanger design.

The Knight controls are quite good. So are the TT.

Given the choice, I'd go TT.
 
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Old 10-13-09, 09:47 AM
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Are you talking TT Prestige Solo or Excellence? The Excellence has an in-the-cabinet small indirect.

Vent through the chimney unless you like weird ice formations.
 
 

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