URGENT question about Riello F5 motor...only turns on when I knock on the side


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Old 10-11-09, 11:16 AM
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Question about Riello F5 motor...only turns on when I knock on the side

Hey everyone,

We have a Riello F5 and it won't turn on without hitting the restart button. It tends to hum and then only fires when you give the side of the case a little knock. What does this mean?

A few days ago, we missed our oil delivery and the tank was run dry. What part would this damage quickest?

Is this a relay problem or does the entire motor need replacing? Is there a capacitor problem? There is also a tiger loop on the system right now.

Also, how much do these motors run in general? Someone quoted me $300 to replace the entire motor and I don't know if that's a fair price.
 

Last edited by nycdude; 10-11-09 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 10-11-09, 12:01 PM
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I'm starting to think it might be the capacitor after doing some more reading since the motor does not make a winding noise... I feel like it's a really small part that is causing the problem. The entire setup is only 5 years old, so I don't think it's the motor.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 05:47 PM
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Riello

In 20+ years of working on Riello burners I've never had one act like that. If a capacitor is bad the motor should not start with a tap. That is more indicitive of a split phase motor not a PSC.

Here's something which may help narrow it down: Turn off the power & remove the control box. Using a small jumper with alligator clips jump terminals 5 & 6 on the sub-base to which the control box mounts. Create a call for heat & turn on the power. If the motor starts without any tap, the problem is in the control. Also inspect sub-base & control box to insure good contact on all terminals.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady View Post
In 20+ years of working on Riello burners I've never had one act like that. If a capacitor is bad the motor should not start with a tap. That is more indicitive of a split phase motor not a PSC.

Here's something which may help narrow it down: Turn off the power & remove the control box. Using a small jumper with alligator clips jump terminals 5 & 6 on the sub-base to which the control box mounts. Create a call for heat & turn on the power. If the motor starts without any tap, the problem is in the control. Also inspect sub-base & control box to insure good contact on all terminals.
Grady, thank you so much for your reply!

I agree with you. Here's something. I just turned it on by pushing the reset button and it came on. I then proceeded to take the relay off (that's the same thing as a control box, right?) to just check out how things were wired in case I do this myself. The capacitor seems really easy to wire. I figure the tap/knock I administered and the burner coming on must have just been a coincidence.

Anyway, I turned the boiler back on, let the shower run to force the boiler on, and it came back on completely on it's own. I did this again afterward, and it was still okay.

Do you still think it's the control box? Can you provide me to a link? Is there any chance there's a dead spot in the motor or damage to the motor itself? I plan on buying parts first thing in the morning from Patriot Supply - Industrial, Commercial & Residential HVAC Parts & Equipment If you can link me, I'd appreciate it since I can't seem to find the control box.

Thanks,

TJ
 
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Old 10-11-09, 05:54 PM
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Nevermind, found the control box:

Patriot Supply - 7001029

That seems to be the part, right? Where does the photocell/eye plug in? Does it plug into this part? If so, I'd like to replace the capacitor, control box, and photocell in one shot tomorrow.

How can I be sure the motor is okay?

Thanks again,

TJ
 
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Old 10-11-09, 06:10 PM
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I also saw that a solenoid listed on the supply website. Is that something I might need? Not sure, just asking.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 06:24 PM
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Riello Control

The cad cell plugs into the end below where the electrodes make contact.

It's highly unlikely the problem is the motor. The solenoid is only enegized after the initial pre-purge of aprox. 30 seconds. With the control box in place, if the motor starts, about 30 seconds later the solenoid should open & ignition should take place. The solenoid will never get energized with the control removed & terminals 5 & 6 jumpered.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 06:33 PM
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I have a feeling the motor isn't the problem either since it sounded perfectly fine.

So, when I removed the control box, there were two prongs sticking out that were meant fit into two sockets on the control box. I'm still a bit confused as to where the cad cell goes. Do I have to remove those two prongs? They were connected to a cover to the blast tube. Someone had told me the cad cell actually plugs into the control box and that there is no wiring for it.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 06:42 PM
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Cad Cell

Those two prongs sticking out of or nearly flush with the blast tube are the buss bar ends of the electrodes. If you look at the control box from the end with the electode sockets, at the very bottom you will see the cad cell (white, square, with an "eye" on the burner end). To remove it, just pull straight away from the box. It simply plugs in.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 06:50 PM
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Grady, you're a lifesaver. I'm gonna go out and buy a new capacitor, cad cell, and control box tomorrow and hopefully that fixes everything. Is there anything else you would suggest replacing? Thanks again and I'll let you know what happens.

Best,

TJ
 
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Old 10-11-09, 06:55 PM
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Parts

Make sure none of the prongs on the sub-base are bent or spread to a point where the box terminals might not make good contact. When working on the buner with the control box off, be safe & turn the power off.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 07:29 PM
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I forgot to ask one more thing...would the motor or anything else have been damaged since we let the burner run when the tank was empty? Not sure if that hurt anything.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 07:32 PM
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Damage

There should have been no damage since the burner will lock out if there is no ignition within about 35 seconds of the initiial call.
 
 

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