Biasi b10/riello b10-3 help

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Old 01-02-10, 02:23 PM
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Biasi b10/riello b10-3 help

I am newly registered but have been searching for a while. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Had new oil fired Biasi installed several months ago and have had some issues. First was about a gallon of what appeared to be water pouring out of the flue every time it was fired. Installer insisted it was do to rain and that I needed a new cap on chimney. Finally had I called chimney Co that installed new liner and condensation stopped. Now I have lost faith in installer as it should have been no brainer? Rest of install is very clean and well done.

Fast forward to now 3 months later and heart of cold weather in my area. Faint diesel smell near fireplace which shares the chimeny with separate liners. Looked outside and see grey to white smoke coming out of chimeny. Called Oil Co which I have contract with but did not install boiler.

Found small oil leak somewhere in Riello head unit and explained there was too much draft? Showed me on gauge it was a 2.0 and should be at .6 at the other end of gauge? I am no boiler expert. Tech explained I needed draft control installed. He explained that draft was causing flame to be blown back? He installed draft. Orig draft control was removed when they installed boiler. I was told it wasn't needed.

He checked smoke reading and it was at zero or one. Problem is there is still smoke coming out of chimney. It is about 35deg and smoke now appears white. Smell is now gone. Temp of stack coming from boiler is significantly lower than before. Before I couldn't even touch it and now can rest my hand on it. I would guess approx 70degrees.

My question, is this smoke normal with this boiler do to it's effeciency? I have had about 3 different techs and 2 plumbers look at this boiler and everybody just seams lost when they see it.
 
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Old 01-02-10, 03:34 PM
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Any smoke is not normal. It should be zero. Not 1 or trace, zero.

Sounds like also the stack temp is way too low. This will cause other trouble despite the liner. Are you absolutely certain you can hold your hand on the stack while it's running and not get burned? This should not be the case.
The stack temp should be close to 350F.

I bet that's water vapor you see coming out the top of the chimney.

How tall is the chimney? What size liner?
Is the chimney on an outside wall or inside the house?
2" draft is WAY too high, like ridiculous high.
.6 is still way too high.
It should be more like -0.03 or so at the breech.
Overfire is positive up to +0.06.

The boiler is a B10-3 with a Riello 40 F3, correct?

Here's a link to the B-10 manual:

http://www.qhtinc.com/pdf/B10CHIMNEY%20REV-H.pdf
 
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Old 01-02-10, 03:49 PM
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Although I am mechanically inclined I do not know anything about boilers and am going by what he told me. He had a gauge and did show me the manual and that is the reason he put in the draft today. The gauge wasn't digital but appeared to be quite simple. From my level I could see a neutral center position and maybe four points in either direction. It was pegged to the right when he came and after the draft install it was near the last point to the opposite side.

The liner was 8" and from memory is now 6" stainless. The liner eliminated the condensation but was installed when temps were still warm so I did not see any smoke. The chimney is on an outside wall 3 floor house including the basement. The last say 6 feet or from the roof line up not attched to the house.

The temp of the stack was very hot before the draft install. Now it is about 70 deg as I can hold my hand on it.

The settings are exact as shown in the book as he did show me. This is the problem, they do not seam to be able to eliminate the smoke from the chimney no matter what they do. They tried different nozzles, etc.

The boiler functions without noise or smell since the draft was installed today. But the smoke remains.

Is there really no smoke even with the current 30 or so degree temp? I am in the wrong thought thinking of a car exhaust or breathe of air??? It is no longer grey it is white and not pouring out. It appears like a car exhaust in the cold.
 
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Old 01-02-10, 03:56 PM
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Using an infared thermometer the temp of the stack exiting the boiler right before the draft is approx 80 deg. That is on the outside. I shot it into the opening of the draft and it is approx 14-150deg.
 
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Old 01-02-10, 04:07 PM
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Well, even 150F is still too low.

Did the tech check the stack temp? If he didn't, he should have.
If he did and saw it so low and left it that way

Did the tech adjust the pump pressure?

Did he check the flow from the pump?

Did he check the nozzle line to make sure something wasn't plugged up?

Any more details on what this "leak" inside the burner was?

Did he open up the front door and check flue passages?

This boiler should by no means be firing this cold. If this keeps up, you're going to be putting in another new one when it rots out.

Where are you located? Someone may be able to suggest a competent service co. in your area.
 
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Old 01-02-10, 04:45 PM
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Do you perhaps have a double-wall smoke pipe that you are placing your hand on? Or are you perhaps feeling the pipe when the burner is not firing? I can't see any way that a single-wall smoke pipe is going to be at room temperature when the burner is firing.

As for the white "smoke"...I suspect it is water vapor and not smoke.
 
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Old 01-02-10, 05:50 PM
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Take a close look at the 'smoke'... see if there isn't like 2-3" out the chimney where there is no smoke... and THEN it turns white. I'm with furd... water vapor.

IR thermometers are notoriously bad for checking flue gas temps. You can't take the temp of a gas with them. You are better off with a BBQ grille thermometer! (or for $50-60 bucks, a real flue gas thermometer) The IR guns only measure surface temps, and even at that, depending on the emissivity of the surface you are measuring, the readings will vary widely. But if that IS a single wall flue pipe, there is still no way you should be able to hold your hand on it...

Seems to me from what I've heard is that the Biasi's tend toward pretty low flue gas temps.
 
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Old 01-02-10, 05:58 PM
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That Biasi is a three-pass boiler so it will have a lower stack temperature than a single-pass boiler.
 
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Old 01-02-10, 06:13 PM
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Yeah, I know the infa deal isn't the best but is what I have handy. It is hard to get an accurate reading. At the cast iron outlet temps are up around 175deg but as soon as you get to the sheet metal it drops down to the mid 70's. If I quickly pop open the draft and get a good shot it reads low 220's.

The smoke does appear to be vapor related. The Oil tech stated that was what it was but that was the best he could do. He did check or even try adjusting the pump. He tried 3 different nozzles. He looked for baffles but said it did not have any.

The leak was in the head unit not the boiler itself.


My question is what is it that seams to be so hard about this boiler? Are these guys just so used to working on very inaccurate wasteful units that the settings in a rough ball park are all they need to achieve???

I am on Long Island and honestly am just about done with the wise asses that show up. They immediately think they know what it is and then put their foot in their mouths about 5x's and then say well it is safe and should be fine. Problem is their answers are all different as to what is causing it.

I will call the orig installer on Monday but am not expecting much there as they set it up.

Does Biasi have a tech line??
 
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Old 01-02-10, 06:43 PM
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QHT / Biasi

I know from personal experience that it can be very frustrating to find a good tech to service your system.

Here's one on LongIsland that has some great reviews and works with Biasi...

Technical Heating Long Island Heat & Solar Contractor
 
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Old 12-05-12, 11:06 AM
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smoke exiting flue

checkout air setting on burner? this is something you can adjust and check yourself if you have the smallest capabilities. Look at flame through site glass or door Loosen screw first on air adjust and while looking @ flame,rotate air adjuster till flame looks it's cleanest,hottest,white/yellowist then go out side and see if there is smoke exiting your flue
 
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Old 12-05-12, 03:34 PM
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Oh no...

Sorry Ra, but I have to say that this is NOT a good idea at all.

We do NOT ever advocate adjusting a burner by eye.

Setting it up so that it "looks it's cleanest, hottest, white/yellowist" and then looking at the top of the chimney is just wrong.

Modern oil burners MUST be set up using PROPER INSTRUMENTS for measuring CO, O2, CO2, SMOKE, and DRAFT. There is no 'by eye' shortcut with modern equipment.

Please, any future readers, disregard this advice.
I may in fact end up deleting both of these posts.

By the way, did you happen to notice that the thread you replied to is almost three years old?
 
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