Convector Question
#1
01-18-10, 10:09 AM
Convector Question
I'm currently doing a kitchen remodel and the height of our floor is going to be raised by about 1/4". I have two (what I used to call radiators) old school convectors on either side of the kitchen. The copper and coil should not be affected by the new tile flooring, but I'm almost certain that the covers will no longer fit. Do you guys think I can just trim the bottom "legs" with tin snips to accommodate then new height? Also, I called a local plumbing/heating place and they mentioned that this is an old school method of heating and that they couldn't replace the covers with something else. Really?? I'm hoping the tin snips will work... if not, what are my options?
#2
01-18-10, 03:41 PM
Convector type radiators are still being manufactured.
If you are doing a remodel on the kitchen, you might think about 'modernizing' the radiators... the newer ones are a bit more 'stylish' than the old boxy ones, but still basically the same thing.
How about 'Panel Radiators' ? Sleek modern look, etc...
But I don't see any reason why you couldn't trim the bottom of the cabinets... other than the raw, sharp edge that will probably rust the first time the floor is mopped... look for some way to 'finish' the edge... maybe pieces of 'push on' type automotive trim, or something like that?
If you are doing a remodel on the kitchen, you might think about 'modernizing' the radiators... the newer ones are a bit more 'stylish' than the old boxy ones, but still basically the same thing.
How about 'Panel Radiators' ? Sleek modern look, etc...
But I don't see any reason why you couldn't trim the bottom of the cabinets... other than the raw, sharp edge that will probably rust the first time the floor is mopped... look for some way to 'finish' the edge... maybe pieces of 'push on' type automotive trim, or something like that?
#4
01-18-10, 04:16 PM
what kinda stinks is that the convectors and copper feeding them are reset into the drywall. Looks like those panel radiators are set flush to the wall... i'd have to have the copper relocated and patch up the wall. I mean I AM doing a remodel, but trying to keep costs down. Thanks for the suggestion.
#5
01-18-10, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by drooplug
Why can't you raise the convectors?
#6
01-18-10, 04:39 PM
Take some pics... maybe if we can see, some better ideas will pop into our haids...
free account / Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket / upload there / place link to album here.
free account / Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket / upload there / place link to album here.
#7
01-18-10, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by NJ Trooper
Take some pics... maybe if we can see, some better ideas will pop into our haids...
free account / Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket / upload there / place link to album here.
free account / Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket / upload there / place link to album here.
#8
01-18-10, 07:44 PM
Are you sure those walls aren't plaster? rather than drywall? I bet they are... you try cutting that and yer gonna make a big mess for 1/4" of movement.
Do the lower two corners on the cover have a 'knob' that fits into a 'slot' in the rear part of the cabinet? Are the knob and slot high enough off the floor to allow you to cut the bottom edge?
If so, I see no reason why they can't simply be cut shorter. I don't know that I'd use tin snips though, I would probably get a good sharp metal blade in my sawzall... file down the rough edge... then when yer done, get some paint stripper and take the ten coats of paint off... sand, prime, topcoat... I would install some nice moldings around the cabinet to hide the funky 'caulking' job...
Do the lower two corners on the cover have a 'knob' that fits into a 'slot' in the rear part of the cabinet? Are the knob and slot high enough off the floor to allow you to cut the bottom edge?
If so, I see no reason why they can't simply be cut shorter. I don't know that I'd use tin snips though, I would probably get a good sharp metal blade in my sawzall... file down the rough edge... then when yer done, get some paint stripper and take the ten coats of paint off... sand, prime, topcoat... I would install some nice moldings around the cabinet to hide the funky 'caulking' job...
#9
01-18-10, 08:54 PM
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I agree with Trooper except that I'd use a cheap pneumatic cutoff tool (rotary abrasive blade) instead of a sawzall or tin snips to cut the bottom off the covers. Strip off all the paint (maybe take the covers to a place that has dip tanks) and then one coat of metal primer followed by two coats of high quality enamel.
#10
01-19-10, 04:59 AM
Originally Posted by NJ Trooper
Are you sure those walls aren't plaster? rather than drywall? I bet they are... you try cutting that and yer gonna make a big mess for 1/4" of movement.
Do the lower two corners on the cover have a 'knob' that fits into a 'slot' in the rear part of the cabinet? Are the knob and slot high enough off the floor to allow you to cut the bottom edge?
If so, I see no reason why they can't simply be cut shorter. I don't know that I'd use tin snips though, I would probably get a good sharp metal blade in my sawzall... file down the rough edge... then when yer done, get some paint stripper and take the ten coats of paint off... sand, prime, topcoat... I would install some nice moldings around the cabinet to hide the funky 'caulking' job...
Do the lower two corners on the cover have a 'knob' that fits into a 'slot' in the rear part of the cabinet? Are the knob and slot high enough off the floor to allow you to cut the bottom edge?
If so, I see no reason why they can't simply be cut shorter. I don't know that I'd use tin snips though, I would probably get a good sharp metal blade in my sawzall... file down the rough edge... then when yer done, get some paint stripper and take the ten coats of paint off... sand, prime, topcoat... I would install some nice moldings around the cabinet to hide the funky 'caulking' job...
#11
01-19-10, 02:50 PM
You would need 8-10 feet of baseboard to match the output of those convectors...
The thing about raising it is that there are two metal brackets on either side of the element that hold it all together... so if you raised the cabinet, you would have to raise the element as well...
Here's a company that manufactures a bunch of different styles of convector cabinets... (there are of course others)...
Beacon/Morris Residential, Heat, Kickspace Heaters, Commercial, Steam, Hot Water, Gas, Hydronic, Oil.
Click on 'catalog' on the right side to see all the styles.
One thing I noticed is that the one you pictured isn't even straight in the wall... and in a newly remodeled kitchen, that's gonna stick out like a sore thumb.
The thing about raising it is that there are two metal brackets on either side of the element that hold it all together... so if you raised the cabinet, you would have to raise the element as well...
Here's a company that manufactures a bunch of different styles of convector cabinets... (there are of course others)...
Beacon/Morris Residential, Heat, Kickspace Heaters, Commercial, Steam, Hot Water, Gas, Hydronic, Oil.
Click on 'catalog' on the right side to see all the styles.
One thing I noticed is that the one you pictured isn't even straight in the wall... and in a newly remodeled kitchen, that's gonna stick out like a sore thumb.
#13
01-19-10, 06:33 PM
Could the metal cover be removed and replaced with a custom made wooden one? Something with decorative tin for air circulation? Something akin to a traditional cast iron radiator cover. If you can do that, you could definitely make something that looks real nice.
#14
01-20-10, 05:43 AM
Originally Posted by NJ Trooper
You would need 8-10 feet of baseboard to match the output of those convectors...
The thing about raising it is that there are two metal brackets on either side of the element that hold it all together... so if you raised the cabinet, you would have to raise the element as well...
Here's a company that manufactures a bunch of different styles of convector cabinets... (there are of course others)...
Beacon/Morris Residential, Heat, Kickspace Heaters, Commercial, Steam, Hot Water, Gas, Hydronic, Oil.
Click on 'catalog' on the right side to see all the styles.
One thing I noticed is that the one you pictured isn't even straight in the wall... and in a newly remodeled kitchen, that's gonna stick out like a sore thumb.
The thing about raising it is that there are two metal brackets on either side of the element that hold it all together... so if you raised the cabinet, you would have to raise the element as well...
Here's a company that manufactures a bunch of different styles of convector cabinets... (there are of course others)...
Beacon/Morris Residential, Heat, Kickspace Heaters, Commercial, Steam, Hot Water, Gas, Hydronic, Oil.
Click on 'catalog' on the right side to see all the styles.
One thing I noticed is that the one you pictured isn't even straight in the wall... and in a newly remodeled kitchen, that's gonna stick out like a sore thumb.
Could the metal cover be removed and replaced with a custom made wooden one?
#15
01-20-10, 08:03 AM
Just curious. It looks as though you have a 1/2" copper pipe coming up through the floor on the front view of the left hand side of the photo. If it is a pipe isn't that one of the pipes to your convector or is it just a shadow in the pic.
#16
01-20-10, 08:08 AM
Originally Posted by spot8
Just curious. It looks as though you have a 1/2" copper pipe coming up through the floor on the front view of the left hand side of the photo. If it is a pipe isn't that one of the pipes to your convector or is it just a shadow in the pic.
#17
01-20-10, 09:37 AM
I posted more pics with the cover off if you guys are interested. Trooper was correct... Looks like I won't be able to raise it without raising the coil and copper. Do you think I can just pull the metal frame out and replace it with some nice wood with a metal grated front, similiar to what drooplug suggested? The only thing that concerns me is that the metal cover had a "damper" or basically a panel that aimed the hot air in towards the room. That'd be the only thing that might be tough to reproduce. Is there any risk to the wood getting too hot if I replace the metal with wood? I like the look of custom radiator covers. Could be a fun project.
#18
01-20-10, 09:59 AM
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I would consider removing the unit entirely, walling up the space, and installing a new baseboard unit. I think it would be just as effective and give a better appearance.
#19
01-20-10, 04:11 PM
OK... so really stupid question. Can you mix panel radiators in a loop of convectors like I have? These things apparently have their own temperature controls? Forgive my ignorance.
#20
01-20-10, 04:28 PM
a "damper" or basically a panel that aimed the hot air in towards the room.
Those actually look in pretty good condition... not all beat up inside... fins mostly straight, etc...
A couple thoughts I had:
Are these on an outside wall? If so, with them being recessed into the wall, there's probably almost nothing between the back of the cabinet and the outdoors. There will be a pretty huge heat loss if this is the case. Another reason you might consider walling it up and insulating and installing something else.
A lot of your planning should/would depend on how your system is set up... are all the convectors in a 'series loop' ? in other words, pipe comes in one end, goes out the other end to the next unit... OR ... are both pipes from each convector teeing into one single pipe? Like this:
#21
01-20-10, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by NJ Trooper
The damper isn't really for 'aiming' the heat... it's for partially or completely shutting down the heat from the unit...
Those actually look in pretty good condition... not all beat up inside... fins mostly straight, etc...
A couple thoughts I had:
Are these on an outside wall? If so, with them being recessed into the wall, there's probably almost nothing between the back of the cabinet and the outdoors. There will be a pretty huge heat loss if this is the case. Another reason you might consider walling it up and insulating and installing something else.
A lot of your planning should/would depend on how your system is set up... are all the convectors in a 'series loop' ? in other words, pipe comes in one end, goes out the other end to the next unit... OR ... are both pipes from each convector teeing into one single pipe? Like this:
Those actually look in pretty good condition... not all beat up inside... fins mostly straight, etc...
A couple thoughts I had:
Are these on an outside wall? If so, with them being recessed into the wall, there's probably almost nothing between the back of the cabinet and the outdoors. There will be a pretty huge heat loss if this is the case. Another reason you might consider walling it up and insulating and installing something else.
A lot of your planning should/would depend on how your system is set up... are all the convectors in a 'series loop' ? in other words, pipe comes in one end, goes out the other end to the next unit... OR ... are both pipes from each convector teeing into one single pipe? Like this:
Both convectors in the kitchen are on internal walls and they always seemed like overkill. If it works out where I can put a panel radiator into my existing setup, I may eliminate one of them altogether. Yes, you're right... internally they appear to be in great shape... they're just ugly as heck
Not to much the floor height issue.Thanks again for all your advice here. It's VERY helpful.
#22
01-20-10, 10:42 PM
I like these wooden ones which can be surface or recessed:
Preview - Building Wood Baseboard-Radiator Covers - Fine Homebuilding Article
Preview - Building Wood Baseboard-Radiator Covers - Fine Homebuilding Article
#24
01-21-10, 03:26 PM
Yes, you have a 'monoflo' system, and yes, you should be fine to use a panel radiator.
You want to think carefully about removing one though... before doing so, a heat loss calculation should be done on the room to make sure you would still have enough BTU output to heat it...
If you elect to build wooden covers for the existing (still not a bad choice!) you would want to leave the original covers in place and build the wooden one on the outside. If you _did_ remove the front cover, you want to make sure that the new wooden cover fits snug against the front of the heating element... you want the air going THROUGH the element, NOT around it.
You want to think carefully about removing one though... before doing so, a heat loss calculation should be done on the room to make sure you would still have enough BTU output to heat it...
If you elect to build wooden covers for the existing (still not a bad choice!) you would want to leave the original covers in place and build the wooden one on the outside. If you _did_ remove the front cover, you want to make sure that the new wooden cover fits snug against the front of the heating element... you want the air going THROUGH the element, NOT around it.
#25
01-24-10, 11:32 AM
Thanks for all your help guys. I ended building a rad cover to hide my ugly convectors. See pic below. The bottom will get a coat of paint... the top will be stained to match the new kitchen cabinets.
Last edited by NJT; 01-24-10 at 11:57 AM.
#26
01-24-10, 11:58 AM
Who was it said they didn't have the carpentry skills to pull that off? Hmmmm?
Maybe paint the metal cover inside flat black to make it 'disappear' behind the grille...
nice job!
Maybe paint the metal cover inside flat black to make it 'disappear' behind the grille...
nice job!
#27
01-24-10, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by NJ Trooper
Who was it said they didn't have the carpentry skills to pull that off? Hmmmm?
Maybe paint the metal cover inside flat black to make it 'disappear' behind the grille...
nice job!
Maybe paint the metal cover inside flat black to make it 'disappear' behind the grille...
nice job!
#28
01-24-10, 07:22 PM
May I suggest a design change?
You will probably get more than enough air flow as-is, but future models might benefit from moving the grilles a bit higher up on the front of the cabinet. Remember that these are 'convection' heater, and with the grilles lower on the front you may end up blocking some of the air flow.
How are they attached to the wall?
You will probably get more than enough air flow as-is, but future models might benefit from moving the grilles a bit higher up on the front of the cabinet. Remember that these are 'convection' heater, and with the grilles lower on the front you may end up blocking some of the air flow.
How are they attached to the wall?
#29
01-25-10, 05:37 AM
Originally Posted by NJ Trooper
May I suggest a design change?
You will probably get more than enough air flow as-is, but future models might benefit from moving the grilles a bit higher up on the front of the cabinet. Remember that these are 'convection' heater, and with the grilles lower on the front you may end up blocking some of the air flow.
How are they attached to the wall?
You will probably get more than enough air flow as-is, but future models might benefit from moving the grilles a bit higher up on the front of the cabinet. Remember that these are 'convection' heater, and with the grilles lower on the front you may end up blocking some of the air flow.
How are they attached to the wall?
Last edited by sinTAKS; 01-25-10 at 05:54 AM.
