Burner fuel pump pressure 87 psi ?


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Old 02-04-10, 03:11 PM
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Burner fuel pump pressure 87 psi ?

Was having problems testing my fuel pump pressure (another thread) but with help from the folks on this forum I was able to get a reading. To my surprise I get a pressure of 87 psi.

Boiler Model = New Yorker FR-147

Burner = Beckett AFG

I believe the burner has an F6 head and I got some good info on this forum a while back that the correct nozzle the for this boiler equipped with an AFG burner with an 'F' head is 1.25 x 80ļA .

The tech for some reason had recorded installation of a Delevan 1.25 70A a few times but recorded 1.25 x 80A last time. But what I found installed was the Delevan 1.25 70A? When doing maintenance I replace the nozzle and stay with the Delevan 1.25 70A only because at this time I only have a thermometer and smoke tester and I didnít want to mess with things till I get more testing stuff to make adjustments.

Does the 87 psi with the Delevan 1.25 70A nozzle means things are really bad? Think itís OK to run like this for some more months or is the pump pretty sick and probably ready to go? Or is there just no way to know?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
 
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Old 02-04-10, 03:37 PM
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You have an adjustment screw on your pump. Install your gauge and bring the pressure up to 100psi. Burners now are spec. higher pressures but without knowing you are safe at 100. No burner has ever spec. below 100.
 
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Old 02-04-10, 03:53 PM
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One item to be careful of is the gauge itself. I purchased a gauge and found that it was off by some 20 psi. It was banged around in shipping due to improper packaging (from the manufacturer).

While not a proper "gauge calibration", it never hurts to check various gauges against one another.

Al.
 
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Old 02-04-10, 05:01 PM
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I kinda remember the old thread... but can you refresh us as to what you were told is the proper way to measure pump pressure? Just so we know yer doing it right for starters... don't wanna go chasing ghosts around!

87 PSI is pretty close to the pump 'cut-off' pressure, and it could be that you are measuring that?

If you've got the 'clean-cut' pump, you need to give the system enough time to open the solenoid valve, else you WILL be reading the cutoff pressure.

Agreed about making sure the gauge is accurate... what are you using?

There's not a heckuva lot of difference between the 70 and the 80 ... the 80 is a slightly wider flame pattern... but if you really have 87 PSI, I'm kinda surprised that you have a flame pattern at all!
 
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Old 02-05-10, 12:39 AM
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I agree with the others. 100 psi is the absolute minimum and anything less than this is going to give you a ratty flame, 87 psi would be a REAL ratty flame and impossible to tune so I suspect that either your gauge is reading low or you are not properly installing it. I've been away from residential oil burners for close to 30 years but back then all fuel pumps had a specific gauge port where you could install a gauge. I had a tendency to install the gauge and leave it in place for future diagnostic purposes.
 
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Old 02-05-10, 09:02 AM
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hi folks -

thanks for your response. I'm was just getting ready to put some pictures on photobucket of my setup with other info when an emergency happened here.

i will post some pictures and give you more info (the gauge is from a yellowjacket kit).

thanks!
 
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Old 02-05-10, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by zoesdad View Post
hi folks -

i will post some pictures and give you more info (the gauge is from a yellowjacket kit).

thanks!
Was the gauge loose in the box? If so it is way off. Same set up I purchased with the same result. Would display 80 psi when the true pressure was 100 psi.

Al.
 
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Old 02-05-10, 02:08 PM
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My experience with the FR series boilers they do want an 80ļ/A nozzle but the boiler always has a very light coating of soot every year. We always used a 70ļ/A and never had anything to brush out year after year.
 
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Old 07-07-10, 02:30 PM
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hi folks Ė

Iím trying to resurrect this old thread hoping youíre still around, so I can at least say thanks much for your help. (Sorry, but I was interrupted back then for something very bad.)

At that time I was just getting ready to post these 2 pictures:



picture 2



Looking at my setup Ė it sure does look funny! I have the gauge hanging up on a string to straighten the hose out. Guess thatís silly. Now that I look at the pic taken down at the pump Iím thinking I did a real silly thing by believing I had to use the hose with the gauge. That copper oil line to the nozzle assembly is in the way of the dial gauge, so you really couldnít fasten the gauge down in the pump port without using the fitting and hose. But now Iím thinking Öcouldnít I have just loosened both ends of the copper oil line and have rotated the line so I could have been able to get the gauge in the pump port Ė and not have to use the hose? I was afraid to mess with the oil line- but now Iím thinking that was silly.

Originally Posted by spot8 View Post
You have an adjustment screw on your pump. Install your gauge and bring the pressure up to 100psi. Burners now are spec. higher pressures but without knowing you are safe at 100. No burner has ever spec. below 100.
thanks spot8. I found where the adjustment screw is on my pump. I will make sure I get it to at least 100.

Originally Posted by OldBoiler View Post
Was the gauge loose in the box? If so it is way off. Same set up I purchased with the same result. Would display 80 psi when the true pressure was 100 psi.
Al.
Al I remember you mentioning that before on another thread and when I got the kit I looked carefully to see if that happened. It was OK. I mean at least it wasnít loose in the box. Good thing the kit isnít all that expensive, so if they donít work you donít wind up crying.


Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
I kinda remember the old thread... but can you refresh us as to what you were told is the proper way to measure pump pressure? Just so we know yer doing it right for starters... don't wanna go chasing ghosts around!
Trooper I donít think I ever really asked about the procedure to measure it. (At least I canít remember if I did.) I just assumed you put the gauge in the pump gauge-port and then let the system run normally and then read the pressure. Thatís what I did. (Maybe my bad)

I didnít get any leaking or anything and I was thinking if I had the fittings/hose bass ackwards wouldnít oil leak or spray ? (maybe my bad assumption?). The dial just seemed to jump up to 87 while the burner was running, stay there all the time, then drop to zero immediately upon burner shut down.

Originally Posted by rbeck View Post
My experience with the FR series boilers they do want an 80ļ/A nozzle but the boiler always has a very light coating of soot every year. We always used a 70ļ/A and never had anything to brush out year after year.
rbeck when I brush out the firetubes each year I do get some soot. Not a mountain, but certainly some soot. And thatís with the 70A. So I donít know whether that means anything.

p.s. I donít mind getting another gauge to cross-check if I should do that.
 
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Old 07-07-10, 05:35 PM
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Dad, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, and I hope that everything returns to normal for you...

Let's see what we can do here...

I wouldn't mess with the copper nozzle line. The hose is fine for temporary use, but I wouldn't leave it permanently. In fact, the pulsations in the oil pressure will slowly 'hammer' your gauge to crap, and it may start to leak, not to mention what happens if the hose itself springs a leak when yer not around!

If you did want a gauge permanently installed, I would say to purchase a short pipe nipple, screw it into the gauge port, and mount the gauge on top. They make 'glycerin filled' gauges, and these would tend to last longer if permanently mounted. There also is no reason that you could not install a small valve on the nipple and shut it off when not reading the gauge.

NEVER use teflon tape on the fuel system! The tape can 'flake' off and get into the pump.

OK, next thing is that if you do increase the pressure to 100 PSI, you MUST have the burner readjusted. The extra pressure will increase the amount of fuel delivered and this will demand more air for proper combustion. It should also allow for BETTER combustion, because the fuel will be atomized into smaller particles.

If you have any doubt whatsoever about the gauge accuracy, do try another.

Your assumption about installing the gauge on the port is correct, and read it while the boiler is firing. There are other ways, but yours is fine. You do NOT have a 'clean cut' pump, so no worries about the reading being wrong with your method.
 
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Old 07-07-10, 06:19 PM
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Thanks Trooper and thanks once again for your expert advice.

I did just recently learn about glycerin filled' gauges - I have 2 Omegaís. Think I will try one more gauge and then if I still get a low reading I will get the pump adjusted to 100 and I will at the same time have the burner readjusted as you say. I certainly could live with better combustion. Good idea about the valve and nipple. I could handle that myself. The hose (an gauge) is off there now as you suggest. I see what you are saying about pulsations

Funny, I thought that was the case that using Teflon tape on the fuel system is a no-no, but wouldnít you know it Ė it came from Yellow Jacket with some Teflon tape on one of the fittings screwed to the gauge. I thought that was wrong since they call it a Fuel Oil Gauge Kit. Thought I removed the tape but it looks like itís still there in the picture.

Thanks again Trooper for the great info!
 
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Old 01-07-11, 07:34 PM
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Another no good lying skunk of a gauge

hi folks Ė

Just wanted to report back.

Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
Ö
If you have any doubt whatsoever about the gauge accuracy, do try another...
I know Trooper you have stressed over and over on this forum that you have to make sure your gauges arenít lying to you. Well hereís another liar to add to the stats.

Got a pressure gauge at my local plumbing supply and a 6 inch nipple and coupling (to raise the gauge up past the oil line). This time I got a pressure of 105 psi on my burner fuel pumpĖ not the 87 psi I posted below as my problem. Guess 105 psi sounds more like it.

Then I took the gauge from the Yellow Jacket Kit and used that gauge on the same setup where I got the 105 psi, thus eliminating the Yellow Jacket hose and fittings. Still got 85 psi. So the Yellow Jacket Gauge was lying through its teeth.

Very interesting, I get the same numerical error (20 psi) that Al talks about below. Good thing I checked the gauge. Your warning is now burned into my long term memory. Thanks and thanks to the other folks here.

Originally Posted by OldBoiler View Post
Was the gauge loose in the box? If so it is way off. Same set up I purchased with the same result. Would display 80 psi when the true pressure was 100 psi.
Al.
Originally Posted by OldBoiler View Post
One item to be careful of is the gauge itself. I purchased a gauge and found that it was off by some 20 psi. It was banged around in shipping due to improper packaging (from the manufacturer).

While not a proper "gauge calibration", it never hurts to check various gauges against one another.
Al.
 
 

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