Having problems- Burnham ES2


  #41  
Old 11-26-10, 05:34 AM
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I do have light a light installed on the pump.

The rest of those questions I am waiting for the problem to occur to answer them. I know that STA 8 only appears when the boiler fires to heat the water. Otherwise it's in standby as the pump runs.

rbeck: I think I am ok with checking for voltage now. My brother is an electrical engineer so I can call him for help as I've done in the past. I'd hate to ring your phone at 6 am.
 
  #42  
Old 11-26-10, 09:06 AM
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I know that STA 8 only appears when the boiler fires to heat the water. Otherwise it's in standby as the pump runs.
Waitaminnit... you told us there was no error codes displayed?

And why would the pump run when in standby?

I am a little confused over the apparent differences between the STA chart on page 13 and that on page 18...

STA 8
Boiler Running but Circulator is not Running

Check wiring for loose connection, miswiring. When there is a Domestic Hot Water Heat Request wired to the Outdoor Air Reset card the Circulator will be off for the duration of the priority time. This to allow all of the boiler output to be provided for fast Indirect Water Heater recovery. Check Priority Time (pt_) function using Outdoor Air Reset IQ Option Card Adjustment Mode (see Reset Card Adjustment Mode instructions).


Doesn't this pretty much change everything? Why you didn't tell us this earlier?
 
  #43  
Old 11-26-10, 11:27 AM
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STA is for status codes and ERR is for error codes. On the inside of my boiler door it shows the chart on page 13 plus the ERR code chart. As you see on page 13 is says that STA 8 is "running". Whenever the boiler is fired it shows STA 8 during DHW and heat calls. It's always there. When rbeck asked about STA 8 being shown, I thought he wanted to know if it was there during the problem event.

I never picked up on this information on page 18. I can say I checked for loose connections and miswiring. The rest doesn't make much sense to me because pt_ is set to 0 and I only have one circulator.
 
  #44  
Old 11-26-10, 11:32 AM
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STA 8 doesn't mean that the boiler is running and the circulator is not. That chart on page 18 is saying if the boiler is running and the circ is not, the following could be the problem. I just wanted to make sure that was understood.
 
  #45  
Old 11-26-10, 02:35 PM
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But you still didn't explain why the pump is running in standby...

Otherwise it's in standby as the pump runs.
There must be a misprint in the manual then...

because that chart on 18 clearly shows STA in the left hand column, and it clearly says " If "Err" IS NOT displayed on the IQ Boiler Control: Use the following table to determine the problem and possible causes. "
 
  #46  
Old 11-26-10, 02:52 PM
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The status column is the problem you are trying to troubleshoot not the definition of the status number.

On page 13 for STA 1 it reads :

"Standby:
Either TT Open or TT Closed and Boiler Temperature
within Setpoint & Differential with circulator running."

The STA numbers primarily apply to burner operation and the related sensors.
 
  #47  
Old 11-27-10, 11:09 AM
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Canít stand it Ö Got to get it out Ömy problem .. but please let me vent!

IMHO the manual discussed here missed the mark and the table on page 18 is a basket case. Someone should be hung for it! To have a ďDisplayĒ column-1, followed immediately by a ďStatusĒ column-2, and not mean in that table ,that the Display value IMPLIES THAT STATUS, seems to me to be not just convoluted Ė BUT JUST PLAIN WRONG! Bad manual!

I used to do this kind of stuff and you have to put both your head and your heart into it, and a few QA people, Ö but maybe Iím missing something here. Itís happened before.

Burnham obviously must have a tech manual QA group? But maybe they need to hire consultants (like Trooper for example) to give them feed back on their manuals?
 
  #48  
Old 11-27-10, 01:30 PM
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Thanks Dad! I'm glad I'm not alone!

I too have done my share of tech writing... and it just irks me to see examples like this.
 
  #49  
Old 11-28-10, 04:55 AM
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Terminals 3 & 4 on the ODR cad just overide ODR curve. With that said, it would also turn off the system pump if there is time entered into the PT setting the sysem pump is turned off. If no time is entered into the PT setting the system pump is turned off for that time period or until the DHW temp is satisfied, whichever happens first.
 
  #50  
Old 11-28-10, 05:27 AM
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I agree with all of you here. In Status tables it is only looking at the Status of the boiler and should not have any troubleshooting tips. The only time Status 8 should appear is when there is time in the PT setting. I will attempt to have this wiring issue removed from Status 8as it is not an error.
 
  #51  
Old 11-28-10, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rbeck View Post
The only time Status 8 should appear is when there is time in the PT setting.
Are you sure it only shows when there is time in the PT setting? STA 8 shows EVERY time the boiler is firing for me and PT is set to 0 on my boiler. The chart on the boiler says STA 8 means the boiler is "running".

If STA 8 shouldn't be there, then what should be displayed when the burner is fired?
 

Last edited by drooplug; 11-28-10 at 07:14 AM.
  #52  
Old 11-29-10, 05:36 PM
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I had to review the settings and meanings of the Status chart. It's amazing how much returns with reviews.
The status form mentioned above are problems you encounter under status numbers that do not give an error code.
In other words it is saying that a status 8 which means the unit is running but you notice the pump is not running you will not get an error code but in this situation this is what to look for.
The MPO IQ and the ES2/Series 3 IQ are slightly different.
The Status 8 should be displayed (my apology) when the boiler is running. If the circulator is not running at this time there is no error code produced but look for the wiring problems noted in the manual. If you have "0" in PT than the pump runs on any call. Entering a number in PT holds the pump off for that amount of time.
If you have a call for heat or hot water, with "0" in the PT the pump should be getting 120v. Check at the pump and also at connector P1 terminals 1 & 2.
 
  #53  
Old 12-09-10, 01:46 PM
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I got the call today while I was at work that the house was cold. so I came home to do the diagnosis. Unfortunately, I made an error in some of my metering and didn't realize that until after I got the boiler running. I measured for voltage between T and T and I should have measured between T and ground. So I don't have correct information when it comes to voltage at TT. But here is the rest of what I observed:

I came home and confirmed both Tstats were calling for heat; they were. Went into the basement and saw the DHW aquastat was calling for heat. I checked the zone valves and only the DHW valve was open. Just before I started to meter, the boiler did fire. When it started the water temp was 164F and it stopped firing at 180F. The boiler SP was 180F. The indicator light on the circ was out. I checked for voltage at P1 on the control and it was .9v which I think is basically 0.

On the relay, the wire connected below the #4 pin, I disconnected that and the boiler came out of DHW priority (the DHW zone valve closed), the heating zones valves opened, and the circ came on. At that point, I reconnected the wire, it switched back into DHW priority until is satisfied the call and switched over to the heating zones. I do understand that I shouldn't mess with wires like that while the boiler is switched on. It is not normal practice for me.

I don't know if this information without the TT voltage is enough to make a conclusion. I'll certainly check it again when this problem comes back.

A repost of the wiring diagram link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/drooplu...7625127018516/
 
  #54  
Old 12-10-10, 03:29 AM
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Just checked the boiler and the circ was not running. This time both heating zone valves were open and dhw was closed. I checked TT properly this time and they both had voltage. Boiler temp was 169F with an SP of 144F.
 
  #55  
Old 12-16-10, 11:07 AM
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hi guys Ė

Donít really want to waste your time, ďI know nothingĒ (like Schultzey on the old TV show Hogans Heroes). But Iíve been studying every word on this thread very carefully, while looking at the diagrams and the referenced manuals to try and learn something .

Doing homework to try and follow what you guys are talking about is a great learning experience. I think I can actually follow how Trooper isolated the problem to a few areas, so now I feel good like maybe Iím learning something? (ha-ha, maybe not).

But to the pointÖ I was wondering, if this is actually a bug in the IQ Control firmware where sometimes it just doesnít handle the circulator relay properly, would running without the Outdoor Reset Option Card for a while be useful? In other words, the IQ Control would not have a DHW state to handle and thus any bugs that might be triggered because of the added complexity involved in handling the DHW state, would disappear? Seems that way to me anyway?

I guess the system would lose the efficiency of the Outdoor Reset aid for some time, but shouldnít the system still run OK without it? Just not quite as efficient? Seems like it should?

Seems to me droop could just power down the system, slip out the Outdoor Reset Card, power up, and the system should pick up and run ? If the circulator problem disappears after that, then wouldnít that indicate that the problem is a bug(s) in the IQ Control?

(Or I guess alternatively it could still be something like the 8222 relay chattering sometimes on connection 4-6 so the DHW signal would come on/off really fast for a short time, thus confusing the control? But I guess the same thing could also happen on T-T from the other relays? Iím getting dizzy! )

If the above is nonsense (and I can just hear Trooper, rbeck, saying ďworse than nonsenseĒ) , then just ignore all of this and Ö never mind.

(Just the same Iím staying tuned for future conversation . Very good explanations of the relays, valves, how they work, configuration, etc).
 
  #56  
Old 12-16-10, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by zoesdad View Post
hi guys Ė


(Or I guess alternatively it could still be something like the 8222 relay chattering sometimes on connection 4-6 so the DHW signal would come on/off really fast for a short time, thus confusing the control? But I guess the same thing could also happen on T-T from the other relays? Iím getting dizzy! )
The IQ Control is a separate board from the IQ Option Panel. The Option Panel is where the ODR module is plugged in. The circulator is controlled from the IQ Control board. So I doubt removing the the ODR is going to to affect much. The DHW priority is being handled by the relay which is external to the IQ panels. I need to have DHW on priority or I will some very disappointing hot water recovery times.

I got in touch with the plumber who installed my boiler and he in turn reached out to his Burnham contacts. I have to finish our conversation about what the problem could be, but according to him someone at Burnham is theorizing what you mentioned about the "chattering". They think it could be from a zone valve or the 8222 relay. My plumber started to suggest to me that I should try a control box to isolate that "chattering" from the boiler controls. I need to finish our conversation about all of it to make sure I understand the entire picture and also to convey that this is utter BS. I don't think I should be spending money on a control box to troubleshoot Burnham's control design. If this is in fact the problem, they have a design flaw in their control. My system wiring was designed by the Burnham rep and matches the recommended wiring scheme in their installation manual.
 
  #57  
Old 12-16-10, 06:18 PM
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I should have a new control board on the way soon.
 
  #58  
Old 12-16-10, 07:52 PM
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hi droop Ė

Thanks for your response ! I donít want to waste your time trying to educate me (thatís a big job anyway).
I did try to consider your DHW hot water recovery time on that troubleshooting suggestion (but Iím not surprised that I blew it!)

I thought that DHW signal was just to tell the control to use DHW Setpoint that you set up when you install the ODR card. Without the ODR card the system will use the High Limit Setpoint when there is a call for DHW. I got this from page 14 of the Burnham manual : ďThe Operating Setpoint (SP) will equal the High Limit Setpoint unless an IQ Outdoor Reset IQ Option Card is installed.Ē

In other words, it seemed to me that your wiring and relay configuration guarantee that when the DHW Aquastat calls for heat, the relays switch, the DHW zone valve is opened and the other zones are closed. So I thought thatís how you get your DHW priority. The control doesnít need to know itís a DHW call.

It only needs to know itís a DHW call if you have a ODR card, because the operating temperature might be lower than you would like for DHW because the ODR had lowered the setpoint based on outside temperature. So the control wants to adjust the setpoint higher for the DHW call. But if you donít have an ODR card the setpoint is high enough for DHW, itís at the High Limit setpoint. In other words, without the ODR card the DHW zone is just another zone calling for heat. Now thatís what I thought. Reality is another story!

(listen to me, acting like I know what Iím talking about when I couldnít spell boiler system not long ago, need to clean up my act).

But I guess all thatís neither here nor there. I agree with you, removing the ODR card shouldnít have much of an affect. I was just thinking somewhere in that control there must be code for going in/out of the DHW state, checking to see if PT>0 when entering the DHW state, holding off the circulator for a T-T call if in the DHW state and PT>0, Ö and a few things like that. But I agree I donít think it would be a whole lot. And it would be a long shot anyway.


Originally Posted by drooplug View Post
... I don't think I should be spending money on a control box to troubleshoot Burnham's control design. If this is in fact the problem, they have a design flaw in their control. My system wiring was designed by the Burnham rep and matches the recommended wiring scheme in their installation manual.

I agree with you. If thatís the problem I would definitely agree -itís their design flaw. So the user winds up with the circulator configured out because some other relay chattered? And he has no indication whatsoever about how the system got to that state or what state itís in? Seems clearly like a design flaw to me. Hope you get this fixed. Itís got to be a real pain.


But good luck! Be good to hear what the problem was (if you have time) after itís fixed.


Just saw your post about the new control board. Progress. That sounds great!!
 
  #59  
Old 12-16-10, 08:01 PM
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this was a duplicate of the previous post.
 

Last edited by zoesdad; 12-16-10 at 08:04 PM. Reason: duplicate of previous post
  #60  
Old 12-17-10, 04:45 AM
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I think you are right about removing the ODR now that I think about it more. I should still be able to have it wired as priority over the other zones. Anyway, hopefully this new board works. I don't know how I'm going to pin down the bad connection if it doesn't.
 
  #61  
Old 01-28-11, 03:50 PM
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I finally got my new control board installed. We'll see how it goes from here. I have my fingers crossed.
 
  #62  
Old 01-28-11, 04:58 PM
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Do I understand the R8222D relay chatters? If that is the case the circ contacts would also chatter and burn the contacts due to being line voltage. I would not break commons I would break hots on the R8222D.
 
  #63  
Old 01-28-11, 05:05 PM
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If you asking me if my 8222 relay chatters, then no. There has been no indication of that occurring.
 
  #64  
Old 01-28-11, 05:11 PM
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The ODR card has nothing to do with it as the setpoint temp does change and the zone valve is what operates the burners and circulator.
 
  #65  
Old 03-11-12, 09:41 AM
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Update:

It's been a year since the control board was swapped out. I have had no problems since then. Case closed.

EDIT: I like the old thread warning the forum gives you.
 
 

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