Biasi boiler, Riello F3 burner cone gunked up after 3 1/2 months?


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Old 03-04-10, 02:03 PM
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Smile Biasi boiler, Riello F3 burner cone gunked up after 3 1/2 months?

I have a biasi B4 boiler with a Riello 40 series F3 burner. I installed it the middle of November 2009. I have an indoor reset, 10 micron westwood filter. It also has 3 zones including one for DHW. I get solid 10 minute burn cycles. My draft is perfect over fire and the breach. My burner settings (draft and turbulator) I left factory set for the Biasi B4 boiler. My oil consumption seems to be perfect, based on climate and heat load. Also I have a stainless chimney insert and my stack temp is about 340F gross which is also good for a high efficiency unit. Smoke test is also excellent.

Now my question. I noticed some moisture on the inspection hole plug. I assumed it was just because in the NY area we have gotten pounded by rain. I decided to take off the 4 bolts on the boiler door and inspect the cone and chamber. The combustion chamber was dry and clean, the baffles had a slight whiteness to them (which I was told was good). But the cone was gunked up about 5/8 of an inch on the bottom half. The nozzle and electrodes were squeaky clean too (odd). The retention head on the cone was also varnished with a thin layer of black gunk. This is after only 3.5 months. First off why is this thing so dirty? And where is the moisture coming from, why is it on just the inspection plug and cone not the combustion chamber. The boiler is in a dusty dirt crawl space and it has been very damp. I know I need to use a combustion analyzer but has anyone seen this and can changing the turbulator improve this a bit. Sorry for the long post.
 
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Old 03-04-10, 04:38 PM
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As far as I know the turbulator is set relative to the nozzle size and doesn't require adjustment past that. So your factory turbulator setting should be 2. I'm pretty sure the range is four lines, which from left to right are 3, 2, 1, 0 so you would set it on the second line from the left.

You factory air gate setting ranges from 3.5 - 4.5 but it seems like you already know you'll need an analyzer to set that properly. If I only had a smoke tester I'd set it for a #1 smoke and just open it up a bit beyond that to get #0 smoke.

As for the carbon buildup it could be just as simple as a bad nozzle. Might be worthwhile to check the pump pressure as well. Kind of hard to say without actually seeing where it is built up.
 
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Old 03-05-10, 08:43 AM
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Question

Thanks for your response. I have a combustion anlyzer on order. I also own a riello pump pressure kit to test which I will do this weekend. I can throw a nozzle in to see if it makes a difference but I guess I'd have to wait a least a month to see if I get more build up. I could send you pictures if your interested(of the build up) they are from an iphone but they are decent. The biuld up was at the bottom of the cone. I still have the moisture issue, never had it before but just on the plug and cone not the chamber???? Wierd, I did get a delivery about 2 weeks ago, and it supposedly has some additive in it called Avalux? Anyway thanks again.
 
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Old 03-06-10, 10:16 AM
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What is the over fire draft? Riello like positive pressure. Was the dirt on the head hard or soft. Hard is usually impingement and soft is running the head too cool. I bet it was hard which may have been a bad nozzle. What type of oil filter are you running? Proper spray angle? You already stated you will be checking pump pressure and CO2.
 
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Old 03-06-10, 11:58 AM
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Wink

Maybe I used the wrong terminology about the over fire draft. That is the draft in the boiler combustion area (through inspection hole). The dirt was hard and crusty. I dont know aout spray angle but it is just factory stock turbulator setting and I have the original nozzle that the riello/biasi comes with and it is the correct pattern. I am running a westwood spin on 10 micron high efficiency filter. Like I said in a previous post the fuel oil has the additive avalux I dont know if that matters
 
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Old 03-06-10, 12:42 PM
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Did you post on another site with a picture? For some reason I thought I saw a picture of the cone someplace. My first thought was after-drip. That is when the burner shuts off the nozzle drips fuel out onto the cone which builds up.

This can be caused by several issues, excess heat, small leak in the line, air bubble in the line after the pump (to name a few).

It would be helpful to post a picture on PhotoBucket or similar and post the link here for others to see.

Al.
 
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Old 03-06-10, 04:14 PM
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Smile

No actually I didnt but I just did on photopucket. Its not the best picture but you can get a really good idea of whats going on. I thought it could be a drip. I bled the line well no bubbles and it runs good. Also don't riellos have a hydraulic jack that closes the oil supply at shutdown? The build up seems to be all over the cone not just the bottom and it is well after the nozzle, I understand it would drip before the turbulator and settle at the end of the cone but the carbon is all over the cone and it seems to have built up a thick layer towards the bottom, I guess gravity amongst other reasons could be the cause. I am going to install a tiger loop in about a month. I had heard about smoky shut down due to air bubbles but I didnt think it could be that bad. So many people say all sorts of things. I really need to take a pressure reading and some air readings to see how this thing is running too. Again as in an early post it is in a very dirty dusty envirnonment if that matters.....

Link to the picture

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ck75/photo.jpg
 
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Old 03-06-10, 06:53 PM
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Crud pattern

With the debris being uneven I would initially suspect a partially fouled nozzle causing an uneven spray pattern.
 
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Old 03-06-10, 08:12 PM
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Is this a two pipe fuel system from an underground tank? Again I am thinking as I stated earlier as Grady also stated a fouled nozzle. The only thing that bothers me about that is a 10 micron filter. I wonder if the Westwood 10 micron filter is a non-bypass filter? Even if it is not I would not think it would be that dirty in only a few months.
Does the oil company use the additive all the time? Some additives and 20% mix of bio-fuel will move a lot of sludge to move through the fuel line.
 
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Old 03-06-10, 10:29 PM
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Smile

It's not a 2 pipe system. It's also not in the ground, the tank is in my basement. I don't know if the filter is a non bypass. The oil additive is only on the last 100 gallon delivery from about 2 weeks ago. But that wierd dampness on the inspection hole plug started then. The carbon build up looks a lot older then the last 2 weeks, just seems like a lot in 3.5 months even. I am going to get a combustion analyzer and also replace the nozzle. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the responses
 
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Old 03-07-10, 01:52 AM
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The hydraulic jack is what opens the air adjustment plate on the right side of the burner. For fuel there is a solenoid valve built into the pump which opens up after a set delay.

Make sure if you replace the nozzle the replacement is exactly the same as what is specified in the manual. Should be a 0.65 80W for the B-4 but best if you double check.
 
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Old 03-07-10, 05:48 AM
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Red face

I did some research, thanks for the clarification on the hydraulic jack (still used to the simplicity of becketts) I am going to install the exact nozzle, I had to order it. Could that same solenoid valve be going bad and causing
the drip? I spoke with the distributor and they won't tell you anything without air readings.... I am waiting for my
combustion analyzer unfortunately
I don't have one on hand.
 
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Old 01-08-11, 06:12 AM
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same exact problem!

hello,i just installed a biasi b-4 with riello set up same as yours 2 months ago in my daughters house ,,set to biasi specs ,air test perfect,,,my first syptom was oil drips from blast tube flange at furnace mounting bolts on bottom,,,i removed burner to find excessive build up of carbon on cone and what apeared to be raw fuel,,,so i cleaned everything up ,tightend the four burner bolts a little tighter and hoped not to hear from her again ,,,,,one month later ,,,a few small oil drops leaking from blast tube at gasket of furnace ,,,,,,,im lost,,,,my nozzel is .65X80....i did install a fresh air kit from day one,,,,could this have any affect on performance since my smoke test was perfict?
 
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Old 01-09-11, 08:47 AM
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binko update,,,,yesturday we switched nozzel to a .65x80 solid pattern,,,also im installing a refracatory blanket to bottom of fire box to try to increase combustion chamber temps and efficiency,,,,,any thoughts?.....pump pressure is perfect,,,air settings are all right on the money
 
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Old 01-09-11, 09:53 AM
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You mention an "air test". Please explain. Do you have any combustion test data?
 
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Old 01-09-11, 09:57 AM
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'raw fuel' doesn't sound like a combustion problem... sounds more like a leak.
 
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Old 01-09-11, 01:06 PM
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i have to apologise for my lay-mans terminoligy,,however,my furnace expert that has all the necessary gauges ,bells and whistles has the burner set up and the test results well in spec,,,,but give this unit a month and it starts carboning up bad again? is the bio fuel a resonable suspect? i was told something about 10% bio something or other in the oil is causing problems now?,,,,all i know is my beckett runs problem free,knock on wood....
 
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Old 01-09-11, 01:11 PM
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Bio can cause assorted problems. Did the service guy leave a copy of the data with you & if so, would you be kind enough to post it, please?

You mentioned a fresh air kit. Is this burner a BF series with the cast aluminum cover?
 
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Old 01-10-11, 04:35 PM
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the burner cover is black,sheetmetal,,,i had to knock out a pre-punched area on the side to adapt my 4 inch fresh air intake,also i sealed over the factory ribbed air slots to pull all cumbustion air from out doors..
 
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Old 01-10-11, 06:23 PM
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This is a bit of a longshot but try not pulling in cold outside air directly to the burner. You can make a "cold air trap" by piping the outdoor air into a bucket on the floor. In theory the only time you will actually bring in outside air is when the burner is running & the trap gives the air a chance to warm since it is mixing with room air.
 
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Old 01-11-11, 05:53 PM
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to frylok 75,,,,,,problem solved! after meeting with a biasi guru it turns out you can not set the riello burner to the biasi specs ,,,,either its a misprint or just wrong,,,,the settings to cure your problem are as follows,,,,,pump pressure 175 psi,,,,air shutter 4.7,,,,,turbulator set #1............good luck,,,,worked for me,,,,
 
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Old 01-11-11, 06:08 PM
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Binko, Thanks for the follow up. I've never encountered a Biasi in the field but the settings are certainly worth jotting down in my Riello book.
Thanks again.
 
 

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