boiler is loud!

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Old 03-15-10, 07:35 AM
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boiler is loud!

I have a Weil Mclain oil fired hot water heater. I had to replace the control box a month ago. Well For the past week when it fires and runs, its really loud. Has a loud whirling sound to it. I also recently replaced the nozzle and oil filter. Also noticed that ti seems to come on a lot more often when were not using heat or hot water. Seems to fire every hour and its not that cold out.
 
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Old 03-15-10, 10:54 AM
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Sounds like you have a domestic hot water heat exchanger in your boiler. This likely can be causing the excessive starting and stopping, more so as your outside air temperature increases. I personally am not a big fan of them, Do you have a manual switch over to a electric hot water heater? IF so i would manually change over to run off the electric hot water heater, to determine if the domestic water usage is causing the short cycling.
The loud whirling sound we need to verify that your not over firing and the correct nozzle size, degree and spray pattern is correct for your combustion chamber.
Weil Mclain are very good boilers and literature is easily accessible online for most models. Never rely on what nozzle you take out of the burner. Let us know what the BTU input rating is on your boiler model number and what nozzle you put in it is/
 
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Old 03-15-10, 12:23 PM
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No theres no electric hot water heater. Its very old probally older than me. I replaced the nozzle with teh same size like 3 months ago and it just started to sound like this and no its not mechanical. Its does need a cleaning though, could this be the cause?
 
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Old 03-15-10, 01:11 PM
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Usually I will clean a oil Burner once a year if burning rich possible more often. When do you think it was cleaned last?
dirty heat exchanger will cause excessive run time, due to alot of the heat going up the chimney. But if its cycling on running for a little bit and shutting off. I would turn you your domestic hot water as low as possible to prevent it being the control that brings your burner on, and dont use your hot water for this test period. Does your boiler cycle on to maintain a certain temperature 160-180 ? Or does the thermostat on energize your burner? If you have a Becket burner there will be a T T electrical connection on your primary flame safeguard controller Does it have a jumper across the T and T terminals or is your thermostat wiring connected to it?
I would document your temperatures when the boiler fires up and shuts down. We are trying to determine if you have an auto safety device prematurely cycling the boiler off. Low water, High temperature ect.
We will need to know if the a Aqua stat on the boiler for heating brings your burner on or does your thermostat on the wall energize your burner.
 
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Old 03-15-10, 02:22 PM
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Well the thermostat on my wall has been turned off so Im guessing the aqua stat is in control which I just replaced when I replaced my control box a month ago. Im wondering if its running too rich which is causing it to get really sooty. Its pretty dirty in there so I need to get it cleaned.
 
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Old 03-15-10, 03:44 PM
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Before getting it cleaned get a quote for cleaning , and Tuning with a printed out Combustion analysis. That way you can verify for your self how well its running and not take someones word for it. The tuning with analysis can more then pay for itself and the the cost of cleaning in increased efficiency which means less fuel. your looking For 50 ppm CO or less ideally 0 and around 4 % 02 . Have the Tech mark the adjustments with a sharpie.
I would think about getting a separate hot water heater, as the efficiency to keep your boiler hot all year round for domestic hot water will be expensive.
Your aquastat may have an adjustable differential by increasing it, it should lessen the short cycling. If you can let us know what temperature it comes on at and also what temperature it shuts off at . plus the aquastat setting.
Your control set up is much like a commercial application.
Thermostat on the wall energizes your circulator pump . Water flowing through your boiler drops the boiler water temperature below your aqua stat setting which enables your burner. Maybe more info than you wanted sorry
 

Last edited by LukeP; 03-15-10 at 03:46 PM. Reason: spelling :)
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Old 03-15-10, 03:51 PM
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Forgot to mention does your house overheat meaning gets to hot alot higher then thermostat setpoint?
reason i ask is you wrote Also noticed that ti seems to come on a lot more often when were not using heat or hot water.
Your application you should have whats called a Flow control valve and it is open or not working it will allow migrational flow causing the boiler temp to drop when no heat or domestic water is being called for. This will cycle your boiler when there is no demand for it.
 
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Old 03-15-10, 05:02 PM
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I belive its set to come on at 160 and off at 180. And no the house doesnt overheat.
 
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Old 03-15-10, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by panteramatt View Post
I belive its set to come on at 160 and off at 180. And no the house doesnt overheat.
This looks normal , Do you have a high limit and what temperature is it set at, reason i ask if its auto reset and set to low or out of calibration this will cause the cycling. If you can watch it cycle and tell us if it is coming on at 160 and actually shutting off at 180. May sound trivial but this is what I do.
 
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Old 03-15-10, 05:45 PM
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Seems to shut off before 180 but eventually reches 180.
 
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Old 03-15-10, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by panteramatt View Post
Seems to shut off before 180 but eventually reches 180.
so far this all looks very good. I would clean it get it Tuned and a combustion analysis if you can. If the boiler comes on and cycles off fast then i would look into reducing your firing rate as you don't have enough load to support it for any duration. This will also make your burner quieter. When your boiler comes on how long does it run for.
Rarely do i fire a boiler that is light commercial or residential at max firing rate. I usually shoot for around 80 %. Most are so radically over sized. If you are going to have your boiler professionally cleaned and tuned that would be the time to reduce the firing rate. The tech can Tune it for the new firing rate. Have to ask what Model is your boiler? and BTU input rating?
 
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Old 03-18-10, 04:07 PM
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Well I guess I had the wrong nozzle in there and was running really rich and was dirty as hell. The guy set to #1 smoke cause he couldnt get it quite to 0. It says draft.05 in breech, CO2 8%, and eff 76%. They were down there working on it and cleaning it for 3 hours and only charged me $120. Not bad.
 
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Old 03-18-10, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by panteramatt View Post
Well I guess I had the wrong nozzle in there and was running really rich and was dirty as hell. The guy set to #1 smoke cause he couldnt get it quite to 0. It says draft.05 in breech, CO2 8%, and eff 76%. They were down there working on it and cleaning it for 3 hours and only charged me $120. Not bad.
Very good price indeed
 
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Old 03-19-10, 09:52 AM
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Is it just me or is that CO2 reading way too low...

What burner model are you running? What boiler model?
 
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Old 03-19-10, 12:34 PM
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Oil burner model is 45cu-1 The size of th ebox says p-465. Its an OLD Weil Mclain.
 
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Old 03-19-10, 03:30 PM
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It's not just you Spidey, 8% is very low... 10.5% is low... but ehhhhh, acceptable... 8% ain't even near acceptable. I think most guys will tell you that the W-M burners 5uck.
 
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Old 03-19-10, 03:39 PM
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Huh, I was always told that the WM burners were really good. One guy even said their the cadillac of burners. The repair guy even said it was a good burner.
 
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Old 03-19-10, 03:47 PM
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So whats bad about the co being low?
 
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Old 03-19-10, 03:53 PM
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Let's see what the other guys say about the W-M burners...

A CO reading of 8% indicates that you've got messed up combustion... there's a whole bunch of science behind that, and if yer interested I might be able to dig up a link to a PDF file that will give more info than I care to write... but suffice to say that if the combustion is good, the CO should be around 12 - 12.5 % or so... like I said, a little lower is OK, but 8% is pitiful. It probably means too much air... and possible air leaks into the boiler...

Not being able to get zero smoke is another telltale that something is still wrong.

This ain't a PDF, but substantiates what I'm saying...

http://www.bacharach-training.com/In...st_results.htm
 
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Old 03-19-10, 04:50 PM
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Great, just what I wanted to hear! NJ TROOPER, what part are you from?
 
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Old 03-19-10, 05:25 PM
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Matt, check yer PM's... I define the 'yellow zone' as anything south of the Driscoll Bridge.
 
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Old 03-19-10, 05:59 PM
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Hear is a thread a person has with a similiar boiler and burner http://forum.doityourself.com/archiv.../t-399511.html

a Weil-McLain P-666 with a model 45CU-1 oil burner. I just had the boiler completely serviced, the heat exchanger had a lot of soot buildup. The technician said he adjusted the burner to give a good clean burn with no smoke, but the efficiency wasn't very good. His entry on the burner sticker said 8% CO2, 475 stack temp, 75% eff.

Co2 is low, i would guess Very high O2 , High excessive air , and what we dont have is a Co, and stack temp reading. . I looked for your model boiler i couldnt find it. I havent seen alot of the 45CU-1 This could be its residental and old where i mainly get commercial to light commercial. Burners i usually see on the WM are Beckett a few carlin and Powerflame. WM usually makes a good boiler/ and has a good burner. Really cant comment on the 45cu cant remember the last time i have seen one.
 
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Old 03-22-10, 08:36 AM
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We have about 30-40 of the 65 series WM boilers in service but they're all using Riello burners. A low CO2 with high excess air will also cause very high CO output which has the potential for being dangerous if you have back-drafting or anything like that. It could also be like NJ Trooper said that there is a leak in the combustion chamber. Either way it aint right, lol.
 
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Old 03-25-10, 03:23 PM
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I also have the same problem with my old heater then I just spend a lot of penny in getting it fix until I realized it's a waste of time and money. So, I decided to buy a new one and that answer all my problems. lol.
 
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