I hear running water moving through my baseboard heaters..

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Old 10-20-10, 09:15 PM
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Question I hear running water moving through my baseboard heaters..

I herd it when i turned my heat on for the first time last week and i hear it every time i turn the heat on. Also two of my baseboards barely got hot after running for over an hour. Do i need to bleed the air out? I dont have bleeders at the baseboard's I think i got an idea on how to do it but i just wanted to ask first!! I took some pic's of my setup...


I isolate the circulator pump and open the drain with a hose on it into a bucket and then pull up on that lever of the valve that is inline with the water supply from the street and watch for the bubbles to stop in the bucket? The boiler needs to be cool first right?

Thank you for your time.....
 
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Old 10-21-10, 04:42 AM
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Is there a bleeding system within the boiler itself ?
 
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Old 10-21-10, 05:56 AM
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There is a drain right at the bottom next to the floor under the small green circulator pump that TEE's off into the bottom of the boiler It's at the bottom of that pipe in pic #3 with the air vent on top..I dont know if the pressure is set to low or not
 
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Old 10-21-10, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Slugworth View Post
There is a drain right at the bottom next to the floor under the small green circulator pump that TEE's off into the bottom of the boiler It's at the bottom of that pipe in pic #3 with the air vent on top..I dont know if the pressure is set to low or not
OK , that's outside, but a boiler may have a bleeder inside the metal jacket. See if yours has one, and if so, try it.
 
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Old 10-21-10, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by vilafria View Post
OK , that's outside, but a boiler may have a bleeder inside the metal jacket. See if yours has one, and if so, try it.
Ok i will look tonight...

Thank's alot!!!!
 
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Old 10-21-10, 05:04 PM
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Bleeder inside? I doubt it...

Before we get into this one, from what I can see in the pics, you DO have low pressure in the boiler. On the pressure gauge, one of those needles is a 'reminder'... doesn't really do anything, just sits there to remind one where the pressure should be... the other is the actual pressure needle. From what I can see, it looks like the reminder needle is up around 12 ? and the other is maybe 5-7 ?

There's a few things you need to do FIRST, before you try to purge any air.

You need to repair that water leak where the water feed valve tees into that return pipe. It's dripping on the circ... and if allowed to continue, it will get worse, and damage the circ (and lower the pressure, and let air into the system)

You need to check the air charge in your expansion tank. If it hasn't been recharged in more than two years, I GUARANTEE it will be low. On the bottom of the tank is a blue plastic cap. Under that cap is a tire valve. Before you check the air charge, you MUST reduce the boiler pressure to zero. You will NOT get an accurate reading of the air charge if there is any pressure on the water side (there's a rubber bladder inside that tank that separates the air and water. Any pressure on the water side will give a false reading on the air side.)

You need to get the pressure up in the system (ASSUMING that the pressure gauge is accurate). It's likely that your water feed valve isn't feeding... (plugged up).
 
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Old 10-21-10, 05:29 PM
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Do what NJTrooper says first, but I spy 3 coin vents in that picture!

I also think I see some valves and hose bips on the pipes to aid in purging.
 
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Old 10-21-10, 06:08 PM
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Droop, you must have better eyes than this old man... I don't see no coin vents... where you see them?

I didn't mention the 'purge stations' in this picture intentionally...



because before he does that, he needs to attend to the other issues.

There's also another purge station along the wall in the first pic...
 
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Old 10-21-10, 06:15 PM
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Sluggo, you can find this procedure in other posts, but to save some time, I'm gonna re-post it here... these are instructions to follow step by step to recharge your expansion tank.

The only thing that concerns me about this is that we don't know whether your water fill valve is plugged up or not, and if you follow this procedure, with a plugged up valve you won't be able to get water back into the boiler and then you'll have more problems...

Is the manual valve next to the water fill valve open, or closed?

========================
It is important to do this procedure EXACTLY as written!

1. Shut off boiler and allow to cool to under 100F.

2. Shut off water supply line to boiler.

3. Drain only enough water from the boiler drain to drop the system pressure to ZERO.
DO NOT COMPLETELY DRAIN THE BOILER! ONLY ENOUGH TO DROP PRESSURE TO ZERO!

4. With an ACCURATE tire pressure gauge, check the air charge in the tank on the air valve opposite the end of the tank that's connected to the system. If ANY water comes out of the air valve, the bladder inside the tank is shot and the tank needs replaced. If no water comes out the air valve, and the pressure is less than 12-15 PSI, continue to step 5. If the pressure is OK, turn the water supply to the boiler back on and repressurize the system, turn the power back on to the boiler, no service is necessary.

5. Using a bicycle pump, or a small air compressor, add air to the tank until you have 15 PSI air charge.

6. Check the boiler pressure gauge again, and if it has risen off ZERO, drain some more water from the boiler drain until it is again at ZERO.

7. Check the air charge on the tank again. If it is below 15 PSI, add air to the tank until it is at 15 PSI.

8. Repeat steps 6 and 7 until the boiler stays at ZERO and the tank stays at 15 PSI. At this point, the tank is properly recharged and the water supply can be turned on to re-pressurize the system, turn the power on to boiler and return to service.
 
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Old 10-21-10, 07:06 PM
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I believe they are coin vents, or maybe some other type of vent. I see one in the picture you just reposted, one right above the expansion tank, and the 3rd is a little harder to find. If you look at the close up of the expansion tank, look at the pipe with the other purge station and follow it up into the joist bay.
 
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Old 10-21-10, 08:09 PM
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I see 'float type automatic air vents' - but I don't see any 'coin type' manual vents...

Coin type vents are those little guys, usually 1/8" thread, and use either a coin or a key to open.

The brass can type are the float type automatic jobs.

By the way Slugs, those brass cans with the cap on top... those caps should be left loose to allow the air that the trap to escape... unless they are leaking... then tighten the cap until you have a chance to replace them... then when replaced, leave the cap loose.
 
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Old 10-22-10, 09:29 AM
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Thank's for the help!!!!

I checked the charge at the bottom of the expantion tank and it was zero!! One of the purdge station's in the thrid pic was leaking alittle..I think i can just unscrew the "bonnet" and replace it? The air vent for the bacement zone was leaking too(thats what you see ontop the of the boiler) It stopped when i tapped it. But i dont use the bacement heat that offten...I ran the heat lastnight and everything was hot but i still heard the running water sound's..What happend's if the fill valve gets stuck open? If i was to pull the lever when i purdge the air?

The manual valve next to the water fill valve is open...
 
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Old 10-22-10, 02:52 PM
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I looked closer at the drain's that were weaping water and i can just unscrew the whole valve and replace it with a new one...So that wont be so bad...I also looked to see where that water spot was comming from ontop of the circulator pump..Water is weaping out of the red gasket with the two bolts just above the motor..
 
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Old 10-22-10, 03:07 PM
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One of the purdge station's in the thrid pic was leaking alittle..I think i can just unscrew the "bonnet" and replace it?
Depends on where it's leaking from. If it's leaking from around the valve stem, you can very often just give the bonnet a 'tweak' with a wrench... just a little tighter and often the leak will stop... this will compress the packing material that is around the stem. If it's leaking from the hose part, then you need a new washer. If you replace the valve you will be doing some serious draining and refilling... avoid that if at all possible.

What happend's if the fill valve gets stuck open? If i was to pull the lever when i purdge the air?
Before we talk about purging, did the expansion tank drip any water out of the air valve? and did it seem to hold it's air charge?

When you purge a zone, you would hook a drain to one of the zone drain valves, and CLOSE the stop valve next to it. Then you would pull up on the fast fill lever on the fill valve. If it sticks and leaks through, the boiler pressure will go up to 30 and the relief valve will open. So, when you are done, watch the gauge... and if it is leaking through, close the manual valve until you can replace the fill valve.

But... you really should verify that your pressure gauge is giving true readings before you do any purging!

Water is weaping out of the red gasket with the two bolts just above the motor..
If you are sure about that, you should replace that gasket... but are you sure that the water isn't running down the pipe, onto the flange, and then onto the motor from what appears to be a leak where the fill valve tees into the piping?
 
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Old 10-22-10, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
Depends on where it's leaking from. If it's leaking from around the valve stem, you can very often just give the bonnet a 'tweak' with a wrench... just a little tighter and often the leak will stop... this will compress the packing material that is around the stem. If it's leaking from the hose part, then you need a new washer. If you replace the valve you will be doing some serious draining and refilling... avoid that if at all possible.

Before we talk about purging, did the expansion tank drip any water out of the air valve? and did it seem to hold it's air charge?

When you purge a zone, you would hook a drain to one of the zone drain valves, and CLOSE the stop valve next to it. Then you would pull up on the fast fill lever on the fill valve. If it sticks and leaks through, the boiler pressure will go up to 30 and the relief valve will open. So, when you are done, watch the gauge... and if it is leaking through, close the manual valve until you can replace the fill valve.

But... you really should verify that your pressure gauge is giving true readings before you do any purging!

It did hold a charge 15lbs. No water came out when i checked the pressure but it has the slightest air leak you can bearly hear it..It looks like a regular needle and seat from a bike can i put a new one in ther?

If you are sure about that, you should replace that gasket... but are you sure that the water isn't running down the pipe, onto the flange, and then onto the motor from what appears to be a leak where the fill valve tees into the piping?
1) They are leaking from where the bonnet seals to the body....

2) It did hold a charge 15lbs. No water came out when i checked the pressure but it has the slightest air leak you can bearly hear it..It looks like a regular needle and seat from a bike can i put a new one in ther?

3) Yes, i watched the tiny bubble come from between the red gasket over and over again....
 
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Old 10-22-10, 05:47 PM
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1) They are leaking from where the bonnet seals to the body....
In that case, might as well replace the whole valve... gotta drain the system anyway.

2) It did hold a charge 15lbs. No water came out when i checked the pressure but it has the slightest air leak you can bearly hear it..It looks like a regular needle and seat from a bike can i put a new one in ther?
Yup. Standard 'Schrader' valve. When yer done, put a little soap water to test... or a blob of spit... try snuggin' up the one that's already in there first!

3) Yes, i watched the tiny bubble come from between the red gasket over and over again....
Sounds like enough that you don't want to wait until spring to repair. You should be able to find those red rubber gaskets at HD or Lowes for pretty cheap. Yer definitely gonna have to drain the system for that...

Have you succeeded in getting the pressure up to 12-15 PSI when cold?
 
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Old 10-22-10, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post

Have you succeeded in getting the pressure up to 12-15 PSI when cold?
No i havent done anything yet..I wanted to get your opinion's first...

Im gonna grab a new gasket for it..Should i replace both gaskets?

Thank's again....
 
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Old 10-22-10, 08:52 PM
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If you haven't done anything with the pressure, then how were you able to follow the directions to recharge the expansion tank? After you drained the pressure on the boiler, you would have had to put some water back in... or did you just put air in and ignore the directions? hmmm?
 
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Old 10-23-10, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
If you haven't done anything with the pressure, then how were you able to follow the directions to recharge the expansion tank? After you drained the pressure on the boiler, you would have had to put some water back in... or did you just put air in and ignore the directions? hmmm?
I thought you wanted me to just see if it held air, so i did put some air to it without draining the pressure to zero..So i will follow your instruction's for the tank now..
 
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Old 10-23-10, 07:59 AM
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I forgot to answer one of your questions! YES, if you've got the system drained to replace the gasket, you should replace both of them.

If the bolts are not rusty, why not try 'tweaking' a wee bit tighter to see if it will stop leaking? Maybe you can put off till spring... if the bolts are rusty, you might wanna pick up some new ones when you are at the HD store (stainless steel?)

Be careful when tightening the flange bolts. Don't crank one down tight, with the other loose. Do them alternately and bring them tight together and evenly. You want equal pressure all the way around. You might need to lightly scrape or sand the surfaces of the flanges so that the new gasket seats properly.

Checking to see if it holds air is fine, but it doesn't mean that you have the correct air charge in the tank. If there is any pressure on the water side, it will screw up the reading on the air side. You want to know that the AIR side is 12-15 and the WATER side is ZERO... for an accurate air charge.

I hope that you are able to get water back into the boiler after you let it down to zero! You haven't yet verified that you CAN get water in, have you? If that reducing valve is plugged, and you can't get water in, you've got a problem...
 
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Old 10-23-10, 08:05 AM
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I also need to ask this...

When you put the air in the expansion tank, did the boiler pressure gauge rise from where it was sitting? It should have...

If it didn't, my 'boiler gauges 5uck' mantra applies and you should verify that before you do much more work.

And while you've got the system drained for the flange gaskets, of course you want to replace any other leaking components at the same time.

If you CLOSE THE STOP VALVES on the return lines to the boiler, you might not have to drain all the zones... and that will be a HUGE HELP when you go to refill the system!
 
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Old 10-24-10, 01:09 PM
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I changed those two bad drain's purdged the two drain's and follwed your instuction's for the expantion tank..Turned it back on and it came up to temp shut off. Then i turned the heat on for awhile boiler kicked back on but i have a drip from the pressure relief valve now..Heat upstairs and downstairs seems to work good...Dont know if this drip will stop or not (Most likely not im sure).. The pressure gauge is back to where it was before around 8lbs. or so....

Oh, and tweaking those two flange bolts stopped the drip's
 
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Old 10-25-10, 09:08 AM
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I also see that one of the valves next to the drain i changed is dripping very slowly when cold..No drips when hot..But im gonna have someone come in and change that one and check the PRV while he's here....

Thank's again for all your help!!!!
 
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